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seklarwia
Joined: 20 Jan 2009
Posts: 1546
Location: Monkey onsen, Nagano
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 Posted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 8:50 am Post subject: |
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| SaganWasHere wrote: |
| The interesting thing I find about all of this "conservative" talk from companies like Interac, is that requiring ALTs to be dressed up as if they're going to a business meeting to teach elementary school can be off-putting, especially when everyone else is wearing track suits and overalls. |
I know a couple of ES HRTs who look like they work in an office everyday. Besides it's often what the BOEs, schools and even the parents expect from ALTs even if all the other teachers are roughing it. Even the couple of JETs we have left in ES have to dress pretty smart. |
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SaganWasHere
Joined: 29 Apr 2008
Posts: 39
Location: the 10th dimension...?
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| Posted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 10:08 pm Post subject: |
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| seklarwia wrote: |
| SaganWasHere wrote: |
| The interesting thing I find about all of this "conservative" talk from companies like Interac, is that requiring ALTs to be dressed up as if they're going to a business meeting to teach elementary school can be off-putting, especially when everyone else is wearing track suits and overalls. |
I know a couple of ES HRTs who look like they work in an office everyday. Besides it's often what the BOEs, schools and even the parents expect from ALTs even if all the other teachers are roughing it. Even the couple of JETs we have left in ES have to dress pretty smart. |
Why do you think they require a separate set of dress for international ALTS and Japanese teachers?
If you're running around all day with elementary school students who don't have a dress code, it's a bit strange to have people coming in with suit and ties and skirts and stockings, and even more strange when no one else besides you is dressed up that much. |
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seklarwia
Joined: 20 Jan 2009
Posts: 1546
Location: Monkey onsen, Nagano
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| Posted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 10:36 pm Post subject: |
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| SaganWasHere wrote: |
Why do you think they require a separate set of dress for international ALTS and Japanese teachers?
If you're running around all day with elementary school students who don't have a dress code, it's a bit strange to have people coming in with suit and ties and skirts and stockings, and even more strange when no one else besides you is dressed up that much. |
Well around here at least the dresscode applies to all teachers not just the ALTs. But if the teacher happens to be a sports, art, HE teacher etc they are almost expected not to be dressed in a work clothing even if they aren't teaching these subjects on that particular day. In ES the HRT is often the teacher of nearly all of these subjects. But not always and hence the couple of HRTs I know who are always in shirts and ties.
An ALT, regardless of whether they spend their day runnning around with students is still only an English teacher and thus expected to dress like one. |
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yangyoseop
Joined: 30 Mar 2010
Posts: 47
Location: #1 Sandra Bullock fan in Tallahassee, FL
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| Posted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 10:53 pm Post subject: |
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| I wonder how long this hair is that we're talking about here. Mine is shaggy (bangs past my eyes, halfway down my neck in the back) which is pretty standard for guys in Asian under the age of 30. Never had any problems getting hired in Korea or Japan. |
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SaganWasHere
Joined: 29 Apr 2008
Posts: 39
Location: the 10th dimension...?
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| Posted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 10:55 pm Post subject: |
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| seklarwia wrote: |
| SaganWasHere wrote: |
Why do you think they require a separate set of dress for international ALTS and Japanese teachers?
If you're running around all day with elementary school students who don't have a dress code, it's a bit strange to have people coming in with suit and ties and skirts and stockings, and even more strange when no one else besides you is dressed up that much. |
Well around here at least the dresscode applies to all teachers not just the ALTs. But if the teacher happens to be a sports, art, HE teacher etc they are almost expected not to be dressed in a work clothing even if they aren't teaching these subjects on that particular day. In ES the HRT is often the teacher of nearly all of these subjects. But not always and hence the couple of HRTs I know who are always in shirts and ties.
An ALT, regardless of whether they spend their day runnning around with students is still only an English teacher and thus expected to dress like one. |
Why is there an expectation of what (English) teachers should dress and look like, outside of being clean and neat (business casual at the most)?
Does wearing a suit and tie really improve the quality of education? Or is it simply about appearances?
I wish BOEs and parents would stop thinking about what clothes the ALT wears and focus more on improving the English education system. But...that's a completely different story, right?  |
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Mr_Monkey
Joined: 11 Mar 2009
Posts: 661
Location: Kyuuuuuushuuuuuuu
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| Posted: Wed Jul 14, 2010 11:00 pm Post subject: |
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| IMO, it's not really about the BoEs' demands. Ultimately, it's about dispatchers trying to make lamb look like mutton. |
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seklarwia
Joined: 20 Jan 2009
Posts: 1546
Location: Monkey onsen, Nagano
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| Posted: Thu Jul 15, 2010 8:53 am Post subject: |
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| Mr_Monkey wrote: |
| IMO, it's not really about the BoEs' demands. Ultimately, it's about dispatchers trying to make lamb look like mutton. |
Then why do our JETs need to dress smart, too? And why do schools/BOEs complain to the dispatchers if they're not the ones who care how their ALTs dress? |
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ssjup81
Joined: 15 Jun 2009
Posts: 664
Location: Adachi-ku, Tokyo, Japan
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| Posted: Thu Jul 15, 2010 9:51 am Post subject: |
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I don't know, but seems it'd be natural to dress professionally for any type of a job. Hair and all. Since my hair is braided and long, I keep it tied up in a bun on some days and in a ponytail on others. I guess it's just more acceptable for women I suppose.
As for guys, seems it's more professional to have one's hair cut short. None of the male teachers at the school I'm at have long hair. All of them have it short. Same goes for male ALTs I've seen as well.
I guess the bottom line is that it all boils down to the BoE and the actual school(s) one works for. |
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GambateBingBangBOOM
Joined: 04 Nov 2003
Posts: 2021
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Thu Jul 15, 2010 10:21 am Post subject: |
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| seklarwia wrote: |
| Mr_Monkey wrote: |
| IMO, it's not really about the BoEs' demands. Ultimately, it's about dispatchers trying to make lamb look like mutton. |
[1] Then why do our JETs need to dress smart, too? [2] And why do schools/BOEs complain to the dispatchers if they're not the ones who care how their ALTs dress? |
[1] Because JETs are lamb.
[2] Because schools/BoEs have decided that they like their lamb looking like mutton. |
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seklarwia
Joined: 20 Jan 2009
Posts: 1546
Location: Monkey onsen, Nagano
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| Posted: Thu Jul 15, 2010 11:05 am Post subject: |
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| SaganWasHere wrote: |
| I wish BOEs and parents would stop thinking about what clothes the ALT wears and focus more on improving the English education system. |
But why should they? Japan places a lot of importance on image. A person who doesn't take pride in their appearence, doesn't take pride in their job. And if they care about how regular teachers present themselves (not including those afore mentioned who teach subjects that simply couldn't be taught in formal work wear), why should ALTs be exempt from the scrutiny?
And if they focused on improving English education, 9/10 ALTs would be out on their bums anyway  |
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GambateBingBangBOOM
Joined: 04 Nov 2003
Posts: 2021
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Thu Jul 15, 2010 11:19 am Post subject: |
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| Except that his point was that at elementary schools, ALL of the teachers, often including the principal and vice principal, are dressed in track suits etc. And the ALT is told that a suit is required. |
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Bread
Joined: 24 May 2009
Posts: 318
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| Posted: Thu Jul 15, 2010 11:57 am Post subject: |
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| GambateBingBangBOOM wrote: |
| Except that his point was that at elementary schools, ALL of the teachers, often including the principal and vice principal, are dressed in track suits etc. And the ALT is told that a suit is required. |
Having worked for two major dispatch companies, they specifically told us that suits were NOT required, except for the first day. Both companies advised us to look at how the other teachers dressed and match them, or dress nicer if we wanted. The only rule was really not to dress worse than the other teachers. |
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seklarwia
Joined: 20 Jan 2009
Posts: 1546
Location: Monkey onsen, Nagano
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| Posted: Thu Jul 15, 2010 12:09 pm Post subject: |
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| GambateBingBangBOOM wrote: |
| Except that his point was that at elementary schools, ALL of the teachers, often including the principal and vice principal, are dressed in track suits etc. And the ALT is told that a suit is required. |
And as I said, that isn't the case here. Not all of our ES HRTs are dressed in such a manner.
And I've never seen any principle or vice principle dressed in a track suit.
I often have tea and the occasional dinner at the home of one of my old JTEs. Her father is an ES principle and unless he is quickly changing out of trackie before returning home, he is definately wearing at the very least proper trousers and a shirt in school.
Our old No.3 got promoted to vice principle in a different ES this year and he also continues to dress pretty formally.
I sometimes accompany our JTE who has to do the ES visits when I have nothing better to do. These are not special days so the HRTs dress normally. Many dress very casually but that's also how I know that there are some that dress more formally, too. But again, I have never seen the principles or vices dressed as you describe in any of these schools. |
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starteacher
Joined: 25 Feb 2009
Posts: 237
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| Posted: Thu Jul 15, 2010 12:13 pm Post subject: |
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This thread makes me think that all foreign teachers are hippies ... heck, maybe we are  or at least deep down there is an element of it ... otherwise we won't be in Japan.....  |
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SaganWasHere
Joined: 29 Apr 2008
Posts: 39
Location: the 10th dimension...?
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| Posted: Thu Jul 15, 2010 9:46 pm Post subject: |
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| seklarwia wrote: |
| SaganWasHere wrote: |
| I wish BOEs and parents would stop thinking about what clothes the ALT wears and focus more on improving the English education system. |
But why should they? Japan places a lot of importance on image. A person who doesn't take pride in their appearence, doesn't take pride in their job. And if they care about how regular teachers present themselves (not including those afore mentioned who teach subjects that simply couldn't be taught in formal work wear), why should ALTs be exempt from the scrutiny?
And if they focused on improving English education, 9/10 ALTs would be out on their bums anyway |
There is a difference in being asked to wear "professional" clothing and taking pride in one's appearance. There is a difference between "short hair" and clean, presentable hair.
Clothing trends change with time. Remember when you were not considered professional without a jacket and tie? Once "Cool Biz" rolled in, it was completely acceptable to go to work without a suit and tie.
I see no problem with long hair (in Japan or elsewhere).
Your comment about focusing on education---IDK, you can teach people to be teachers. Just like you can teach people that the clothes don't matter as much as we think they do!
ETA: This conversation might seem confrontational, but I'm just talking out loud and wanting to hear everyone's opinions. |
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