Job Discussion Forums

lilyran · Joined: 16 Jul 2010 Posts: 4

Yes, I understand what you are saying, and of course I want to be efficient at what I am doing. However, I guess my question was asking more how big the discrepancy is between CELTA and other courses like Oxford, TEFL, etc.

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Sashadroogie · Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 8:43 am Post subject:

TEFL is not a course. Oxford could mean many things - which do you mean?

However, the discrepancy between CELTA and other well-established courses is huge. Namely, you'll have a good idea of how to start your teaching career with the former, whereas with the latter you won't. Therefore you'd be better off not throwing away money on a rubbishy course, and do no course at all if you can't do a proper one.

Justin Trullinger · Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 11:54 am Post subject:

Sashadroogie · Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 1:58 pm Post subject:

Poor phrasing on my part. The discrepancy between CELTA and other well-established course versus unknown courses is huge.

laconic · Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 9:35 pm Post subject:

The very worst teacher I have ever known has a CELTA.

The very best teacher I have ever encountered has no teaching certificate of any kind.

The problem with CELTA holders, in particular, is that they all too often evidence a "clique" mentality firmly believing that the CELTA is the one and only certificate of value in the world of ESL/EFL teaching.

Also, in my experience, they all too often seem very unwilling to stray from the teaching methodology they were presented with during their CELTA training and so teaching spontaneity and innovation in the classroom are often missing and classes tend to be stale and overly rigid.

My take on this topic is that all of these teacher training programs and courses are only as good as the trainer(s) presenting them. A brand name does not an excellent course make, regardless of the name of the brand involved.

CELTA has the brand recognition and this can sometimes be helpful for employment purposes. This is a fact, like it or not.

Does a candidate with a CELTA guarantee the hiring official is automatically looking at the very best teacher among many candidates without CELTAs?

Absolutely not.

Unfortunately, though, selecting officials with CELTAs all too often feel this way and automatically exclude other certificate or non-certificate holders only because they are not waving the one and only "very special" certificate at them.

Again, clique mentality at work.

It's a fact.

Like it or not. Wink

Greg 09 · Joined: 30 Jan 2009 Posts: 169

Justin Trullinger · Posted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 10:53 am Post subject:

Something that comes up is the question of which courses are good, and how you can tell. Here's my two cents worth-

1) Go ahead and ask here- if you're new in the field, well, we aren't. Happy too check them out.

2) DON'T generalize. Some acronyms refer to a specific course, but many (TEFL, TESL, and others) are just words. Let us know exactly which courses you're considering. (Links are good)

3) Don't be fooled by low prices. If it sounds too good to be true, it almost always is.

4) Don't be too trusting about claims on the course providers' websites. Of COURSE they think their course is good. (Or at least want you to think so.)

5) Good courses should be accredited by a real accreditor. (Like a university, governmental body, or similar.) DOn't be fooled by memberships in professional organisations- most anybody who pays the fee can join these.

6) Check out references. Previous grads are good.

7) Check a lot of different criteria. If they are "good" in one way (having well trained trainers, say), if they're bad in another (huge group sizes and too big a trainee to trainer ratio, for example), you don't want to go there.

All the best,
Justin

killthebuddha · Posted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 3:28 pm Post subject:

Greg 09 · Joined: 30 Jan 2009 Posts: 169

"...customer review comparisons of CELTA with other similar programs places them well down the list according to customer satisfaction."

Where can we see this comparison? I'm truly interested.

CELTA's value in the marketplace is important. Read through a few dozen job ads for many countries and you'll see CELTA over and over again. Trinity some, SIT almost never and the others are vapor. Inherent in its brand is immediate recognition and usefulness for a job seeker.

In my situation, my future employer just wanted to see an ESL certificate, any one will do. If I had had more time it would have been CELTA, for professional reasons. But that's now in the future, and I can be convinced otherwise if there is good evidence.

spiral78 · Joined: 05 Apr 2004 Posts: 11534 Location: On a Short Leash

"...customer review comparisons of CELTA with other similar programs places them well down the list according to customer satisfaction."

I'd also be curious to see these review comparisons.

However, I suspect that 'customer satisfaction' is related to level of challenge. CELTA and equivalent courses aren't exactly fun - though they can be quite rewarding. Those are normally a really tough 30 days, as there is lots to take on board in a relatively short time. Critique of your teaching efforts, while invaluable, is obviously stressful and can even be intimidating.

It could be difficult to say you've 'enjoyed' a course that has stressed and challenged you to this degree - but assessing its 'usefulness' would be a better marker.

I don't know how the 'customer satisfaction' the previous poster mentions was measured, but if it was linked to adjectives like 'enjoyed,' then it's obvious why a CELTA or other good course could rate rather low.

Greg 09 · Joined: 30 Jan 2009 Posts: 169

Good point. Indeed, usefulness and enjoyment are often at odds with each other. I think it was Vince Lombardi who said

"My job is to make grown men do what they don't want to do, so they will have what they've always wanted."

Another aside, did anyone else see that Cambridge has developed an online CELTA?

Dr Mike Milanovic, Chief Executive of Cambridge ESOL says:

�CELTA is taken by thousands of teachers every year and is recognised by language schools, universities and other teaching organisations worldwide. The rigorous course will include substantial face to face teaching practice as well as the online delivery of the theoretical background to language teaching and learning�.

killthebuddha · Posted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 5:38 pm Post subject:

AGoodStory · Joined: 26 Feb 2010 Posts: 738

I really can't tell what point you are trying to make, killthebuddha. I do get that in your opinion the value of a CELTA is overrated. Fair enough. But do you mean to suggest that your "teflcourse" link is providing unbiased information about a CELTA/generic-tefl-cert comparison? In spite of the unabashed sales pitch? ("Come-to-a-tropical-isle-and-take-this-wonder-course-that-will-change-your-life?") Well. . . okay. . .not quite, but close enough. For all I know, the site is selling a perfectly fine course, and useful products--but neutral and objective it is not.

killthebuddha · Posted: Thu Jul 22, 2010 8:55 pm Post subject: