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Phil_K · Joined: 25 Jan 2007 Posts: 2041 Location: A World of my Own

According to the Publimetro, only 2% of Mexicans master the English language, even though 47% study it for professional reasons. Interesting, as English teachers, eh?

scot47 · Joined: 10 Jan 2003 Posts: 15343

Characteristic of most Spanish-speaking countries. Look at Spain and South America and you will see the samwe phenomenon. In Italy too and, to a lesser extent in France. Why are they so different from Northern Europeans ?

thelmadatter · Posted: Wed Aug 04, 2010 1:42 pm Post subject: passing

Passing students who dont learn? Thats been my experience in Mexico

mejms · Joined: 04 Jan 2010 Posts: 390

Phil_K,

Your last few threads have been more than pessimistic. I agree with you on a lot of the criticism and observations, but I think we take different perspectives. You said in one post that the best thing about your new business venture is that you won't be working with Mexicans! That's just getting hateful.

You're attacking the culture and people who have different values and a very different way of viewing life than, say, Brits. The idea of getting ahead and being a self-made man is not very Mexican. Americans for one pride themselves on their financial independence. Not so for Mexicans. I'd say that I appreciate this aspect of American culture. But there are other aspects I don't care much for. When grandma or grandpa is old, she typically goes to a nursing home or assisted living of some type. In Mexico she commonly lives with the family. Where will you rather be when you struggle to get around?

Do Mexicans value education? Not as much as we foreigners do. Do they want to learn? I think so. Instead of getting all wound up about the irresponsible, unmotivated, unable-to-commit culture here, I would take much more issue with the fly-by-night businesses that capitalize on get rich pay schemes and slogans. It sounds like you don't want to be here anyways, but if you did and hadn't decided that teaching is simply not for you, why not set out to develop something different from the typical schools (colegios, language schools, whatever) and do things the way they ought to be done? Or are you just going to keep posting about the incompetence of the students and the failure of what's out there? If you don't want to teach either because of your own personal preference or the quality of the people here, then why keep commenting on it?

By the way, saying to your class on the first day "I'm not your teacher and I'm not here to teach. You're here to learn and I'm here to help you" is way, way to brash a comment for people here. I've found that students have more respect for their teacher more here than where I'm from. Trying to make your point about motivation isn't worth putting them off and even confusing them on the first day. Having a first-rate understanding of grammar may make a very fine academic, but knowing how to communicate makes a very fine teacher.

mejms · Joined: 04 Jan 2010 Posts: 390

Guy Courchesne · Joined: 10 Mar 2003 Posts: 9650 Location: Mexico City

I wonder how the numbers compare with other countries/cultures in learning a second language. Say, Koreans learning English, Americans learning spanish, Greeks learning Mandarin...

Phil_K · Joined: 25 Jan 2007 Posts: 2041 Location: A World of my Own

Phil_K · Joined: 25 Jan 2007 Posts: 2041 Location: A World of my Own

mejms · Joined: 04 Jan 2010 Posts: 390

thelmadatter · Posted: Wed Aug 04, 2010 7:08 pm Post subject: grades

My previous response was based on a less-than-charming experience I had yesterday, but Guy's response made me think some more.

I dont know what countries like Holland do right as far as English language teaching, but if it were easy to reproduce, it would be done.

The problem I see in the States, and in Mexico, is that English is approached as a subject to study, not a skill to master. So its pass the test or class. Sure learning the skill will get you to pass the test and class, but so will other things as well. So while learning the language will bring success in and out of the classroom, learning to pass the test (be it TOEFL or whatever) will get you the more immediate success of the grade, diploma... which is as far as most students, teachers and administrators see.

I think that many students enter foreign language classes with the idea of really learning, but one of two things happens along the way. A) They come to realize that it is a lot of hard work and give up in favor of just jumping the hoops or B) they pass the tests and think that they have learned the language, when they have not (put me in the latter category).

Add to that cases where the institutions cheat on the testing ..... so you get most students with a piece of paper what should indicate that they learned a language, but they have not.

mejms · Joined: 04 Jan 2010 Posts: 390

Enchilada Potosina · Joined: 03 Aug 2010 Posts: 344 Location: Mexico

Guy Courchesne · Joined: 10 Mar 2003 Posts: 9650 Location: Mexico City

mejms · Joined: 04 Jan 2010 Posts: 390

That�s a great excerpt about the lack of professionalism and qualifications for language teaching. And I agree that in order to teach a language, you need to first be a student of language. As the author says, that`s how every profession in the world works. First you learn, then you teach. With language teachers though, the attitude is if you speak it, then you can teach it.

My knowledge of Spanish helps me immensely in being a more efficient and effective English teacher. I can anticipate and really understand their mistakes. I don`t know if there is another way for a teacher to really be able to convey the language to a student without having a sense of what it means to learn a language. Maybe there is. Knowing grammar inside out doesn�t do the trick, though. I often think to myself that just as grammar is the framework for a language, so it needs to be the framework for your class. But that doesn�t mean teaching grammar per se. It means using grammar to teach language. If that�s too convoluted, I can say more about what I think.

mejms · Joined: 04 Jan 2010 Posts: 390

That�s a great excerpt about the lack of professionalism and qualifications for language teaching. And I agree that in order to teach a language, you need to first be a student of language. As the author says, that`s how every profession in the world works. First you learn, then you teach. With language teachers though, the attitude is if you speak it, then you can teach it.

My knowledge of Spanish helps me immensely in being a more efficient and effective English teacher. I can anticipate and really understand their mistakes. I don`t know if there is another way for a teacher to really be able to convey the language to a student without having a sense of what it means to learn a language. Maybe there is. Knowing grammar inside out doesn�t do the trick, though. I often think to myself that just as grammar is the framework for a language, so it needs to be the framework for your class. But that doesn�t mean teaching grammar per se. It means using grammar to teach language. If that�s too convoluted, I can say more about what I think.