Job Discussion Forums

Never Ceased To Be Amazed · Posted: Sat Aug 07, 2010 10:19 pm Post subject:

In relation to the quoted article:

"Finally, after 16 hours in limbo, jail officials fingerprinted Uhlmeyer and explained her offense -- missing a court hearing over an unpaid debt."

So she wasn't charged for being in debt, but rather for not coming to court as ordered.

Then again, in the same article:

"Whether a debtor is locked up depends largely on where the person lives..." as does whether or not a person gets locked up for taking a swig of beer in the states. I believe that the jury is out on this one, but if I were a betting man, I think that a municipality/larger governement entity started hauling in everyone wholesale for debt, especially in the global economic recession, they'd be brought to task right quick.

The article that you referred to does NOT support yer position as she was jailed for contempt of court...but it does raise an eyebrow...

NCTBA

alien-resurrection · Joined: 30 Jun 2010 Posts: 16 Location: UAE

NCTBA is right. If the US Courts decided to get tough on people who couldn't pay their debts, that could mean a third or a quarter of the country in prison!!! (no slight on the US intended). However, what is the point of taking away someone's passport and making him a prisoner in the UAE if he can't get a job because he can't get a visa to pay back the money because HE DOESN'T HAVE HIS PASSPORT!!! How stupid is that!! In effect he is being held as a hostage for ransom. The authorities are hoping that a friend or relative will eventually bail him out.
Don't forget that historically, the UAE like other Gulf States, were heavily involved in slavery and piracy. Piracy involves taking hostages in the expectation that they will receive ransom money from relatives of the hostages to free them. So what the UAE is doing in a sense is perfectly logical: following its "tradition".

Isn't it nice to maintain one's "traditions"?

ummkhadija · Posted: Sun Aug 08, 2010 12:14 am Post subject:

Dear, NCTBA

Never Ceased To Be Amazed · Posted: Sun Aug 08, 2010 12:29 am Post subject:

You don't have to convince ME of anything, darlin'. I know where th' rubber meets the road...

NCTBA

ummkhadija · Posted: Sun Aug 08, 2010 2:35 am Post subject:

Sheikh N Bake · Joined: 26 Apr 2007 Posts: 1307 Location: Dis ting of ours

High debt and failure to discharge debt, again, does not in itself land you in prison in the States. Fraud and theft may well do. For wxample you can walk away from your mortgage and all you will suffer is a low credit rating.

johnslat · Posted: Sun Aug 08, 2010 1:36 pm Post subject:

Dear Sheik,

" . . . all you will suffer is a low credit rating."

which, in the US these days, can be tantamount to a "financial death sentence."

Regards,
John

veiledsentiments · Joined: 20 Feb 2003 Posts: 17644 Location: USA

Actually, I know of people jailed for bad checks. It depends on the state. And, no... there was no fraud or mail fraud. Just stupidity and desperation. Of course, you can call it 'fraud' as the person probably knew that there was not enough money... or 'mail fraud' as invariably the check was sent through the mail. But, the reality is that the punishment is for writing an NSF check no matter what fancy legal term you slap on it. If the person receiving the check decides to press charges, a jail sentence is part of the normal punishment. It is up to the judge to decide. Fortunately most people/companies do not bother to press charges. Our legal system is already overburdened with too many stupid, unnecessary cases.

But there is no debating that the UAE system for dealing with bad debts is ludicrous. Especially as it is only enforced against expats.

VS

Sheikh N Bake · Joined: 26 Apr 2007 Posts: 1307 Location: Dis ting of ours

Jail time for passing a bad check or two would have to involve proof beyond a reasonable doubt, I would think, that the perp was passing bad faith along with the check. And with a jury, surely. But, again, just failing to pay debts does not land the ordinary consumer in prison.

As for walking away from a mortgage, that doesn't put you in financial oblivion if you know what you're doing. You need to have some cash, enough to rent a place and get on with your life. And it's a way for those who've been victimized by unscrupulous lenders to say "You can have it--we don't need no stinkin' houses!" Inshallah, stellar credit ratings will return in 7 years or so. A lot of personal-finance gurus have been advising this course of action for those who really need it.

johnslat · Posted: Sun Aug 08, 2010 7:55 pm Post subject:

Dear Sheik,

Renting a place might not be too easy:

"I�ll just rent after I walk

Homeowners who think that they can walk away from their homes, rent for a bit and start over are going to be in for a big surprise.

When someone lets their home go into foreclosure, it harms their credit score and leaves a black mark on their credit report. It�s a black mark that will stay on their credit report for seven years. Many landlords do credit checks on their potential renters. Seeing a foreclosure is likely going to be a red flag to the landlord that you�re not capable, or willing, to make your rent payments on time.

The foreclosure is also going to be a red flag to lenders if the homeowner would like to buy a home or take out any new credit in the next seven years. In addition to the decision of whether or not to give a potential homeowner a mortgage, lenders also base interest rates on the borrower�s credit score. The borrowers with the best credit scores get the best mortgage terms and/or interest rates. A foreclosure is going to put the borrower in a bad position when it comes to getting credit � if they can get credit."

http://cashmoneylife.com/2010/03/11/walk-away-from-mortgage/

So, I'd definitely call it a "last-resort" measure.

Regards,
John

veiledsentiments · Joined: 20 Feb 2003 Posts: 17644 Location: USA

007 · Posted: Mon Aug 09, 2010 3:12 pm Post subject:

Sheikh Nano, VS is right, there is a big difference between a jail and a prison in the USA. State prisons are better than county jails, they have better food, better bathrooms, and people are well treated!

In most cases, people in jails are found not guilty, and people in prisons are found guilty!! This is the criminal laws of Uncle Sam, you can do nothing! Laughing

BTW, jails and prisons in the Magic Kingdom are the same, and the penalties are the same! Laughing

veiledsentiments · Joined: 20 Feb 2003 Posts: 17644 Location: USA

007 again makes it very clear that his prejudices against the US make it impossible to know what he is talking about... especially when added to the fact that he has never been there.

VS

Sheikh N Bake · Joined: 26 Apr 2007 Posts: 1307 Location: Dis ting of ours

He is truly a para-diggim of childishness and a poor education. Does he really think after all these years interloping on our forum that anybody is fooled by just saying anything that makes him feel good no matter how ridiculous? And...he has not developed intellectually at all since the 10th grade...how sad.

John, about mortgages, VS speaks wisdom. I'll have to agree to disagree with you. All you need to rent a place when you have a bad credit score is a few months' rent in advance. Never mind you walked away from a mortgage, because 10% of the country is doing it. It is better than a last resort if you have a mortgage that was essentially foisted on you, a morally dishonest mortgage that involves huge increases and makes the house worth half as much as you owe on it... There is absolutely no need to put up with that, and I would certainly dump it in that case, at least if I didn't have enough equity in it.

You can trust me on this, apartment owners are glad to take your money in advance, especially if you have six months or a year's worth.