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veiledsentiments
Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 17644
Location: USA
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 Posted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 1:24 am Post subject: |
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| merry_prankster wrote: |
| True to an extent, but wouldn't you agree that the language support being offered at UGRU would have prepared the students to handle the courses they would take at UAEU better than a hastily-designed 1-year intensive program at HCT. |
No... because HCT is teaching the same type of foundations program to its own students as they have been since about 1990, and they have always done a very good job of it. One can criticize HCT for many things, but their foundations programs are as good or better than any in the entire Gulf.
The students will have to achieve whatever level is required for them to be admitted to UAEU whether it takes them one semester or two or more. HCT is completely capable of preparing the students in Academic English, math, and computing. They know what they are doing and have many outstanding teachers.
VS |
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Never Ceased To Be Amazed
Joined: 22 Oct 2004
Posts: 3500
Location: Shhh...don't talk to me...I'm playin' dead...
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veiledsentiments
Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 17644
Location: USA
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| Posted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 2:03 am Post subject: |
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The problem with HCT has always been the same... management. There have always been 1 or 2 branches with "issues" in that area. This year the problems are in Abu Dhabi.
VS |
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merry_prankster
Joined: 25 Mar 2010
Posts: 27
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| Posted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 12:47 pm Post subject: |
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Actually HCT are bringing in a new curriculum for these UAEU students this fall. Everything that I have heard suggests that it is not particularly strong. Nor will it satisfactorily prepare 90-95 % of the incoming students for entrance to UAEU with an IELTS 5.5 in one year. This is the time limit that has been set for the students from UAEU to meet the requirements.
You also did not address the ESP issue I mentioned. The provost also wants to get rid of this. Do you not think that students will still need this type of language support in the foreseeable future so why get rid of it? |
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veiledsentiments
Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 17644
Location: USA
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| Posted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 1:56 pm Post subject: |
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| merry_prankster wrote: |
| You also did not address the ESP issue I mentioned. The provost also wants to get rid of this. Do you not think that students will still need this type of language support in the foreseeable future so why get rid of it? |
It is hard to say as yet what the new program will be like. There is no way that a new curriculum could have been developed in the 15 minutes that they have known about this. There has been no buzz about people being pulled off other programs to develop it. So, all they can be doing is adapting some mishmash of the current HCT program and the current UGRU program. Mainly we only know what "they" are saying... and we know how much validity there is in that.  We all know that the first years of this are going to be all about tweaking... poor students... unwilling guinea pigs.
We also know that Prevosts often live in Fantasy Land and the reality in the classroom means that we haven't a clue as to what will happen with EFL work in the departments. I suspect that Department Heads will end up being the ones who make that final decision... which in all likelihood will be delayed until they know what level students they receive from the new program at HCT. I predict lots of heated management meetings.
Right now all that is coming out is more of the usual rumor and speculation that is the norm in the Gulf. What Mr Prevost wants and what he gets will very likely not be the same. I think the more we hear, the happier we will be that we are no longer in the middle of the chaos. And the teachers and students are the unwilling, non-consulted victims.
VS |
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Never Ceased To Be Amazed
Joined: 22 Oct 2004
Posts: 3500
Location: Shhh...don't talk to me...I'm playin' dead...
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| Posted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 2:32 pm Post subject: |
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Er...Provost, right?
As I wuz reading the post, I kept asking myself, "Have I been pronunciating it wrong all these years???"
NCTBA |
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johnslat
Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 13859
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
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| Posted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 2:55 pm Post subject: |
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Dear NCTBA,
Prevosts come before Vosts; Provosts, on the other hand, are all in favor of Vosts. 
Regards,
John |
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Never Ceased To Be Amazed
Joined: 22 Oct 2004
Posts: 3500
Location: Shhh...don't talk to me...I'm playin' dead...
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| Posted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 3:15 pm Post subject: |
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| johnslat wrote: |
Dear NCTBA,
Prevosts come before Vosts; Provosts, on the other hand, are all in favor of Vosts.
Regards,
John |
Thanks for clearing that up, John. Obviously, I've been misunderstanding the term for years.
I had been under the impression that Provosts were Vosts who had lost their amateur status by Vosting for money...
I guess that it's back to school for me! 
NCTBA
P.s.- Jes' to clear something else up... does one have to be a prevert before they become a revert...or is that a perversion of the term? |
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Never Ceased To Be Amazed
Joined: 22 Oct 2004
Posts: 3500
Location: Shhh...don't talk to me...I'm playin' dead...
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| Posted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 3:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Never Ceased To Be Amazed wrote: |
"Have I been pronunciating it wrong all these years???"
NCTBA |
Ha! I invented a NEW word!!!
NCTBA |
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Suede Oasis
Joined: 03 Jun 2010
Posts: 12
Location: Under the Floorboards
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| Posted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 4:10 pm Post subject: |
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So true: "only 2 Gulf universities that made the 'real' university rankings have large and thriving language support programs".
I would add that the Universities I have worked at in 'the real world' back in the West have language support programs for foreign MA and BA students - right up until the very last day, if they need it. Jeez, even the vocational colleges that I know of back home provide language support for their foreign students.
So to claim that a third-rate 'University' in a developing country don't need to provide any LS programs smacks of either arrogance or ignorance. Oh, hang on - knowing the place in question, probably both! |
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veiledsentiments
Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 17644
Location: USA
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| Posted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 5:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Never Ceased To Be Amazed wrote: |
Er...Provost, right?
As I wuz reading the post, I kept asking myself, "Have I been pronunciating it wrong all these years???"
NCTBA |
It's a typo... I spend too much time on my other boards... which is on RVs. A Prevost is a swanky million+ dollar motorhome.
Try a google... maybe you want to buy one for retirement.
VS |
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veiledsentiments
Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 17644
Location: USA
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| Posted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 5:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Suede Oasis wrote: |
| So to claim that a third-rate 'University' in a developing country don't need to provide any LS programs smacks of either arrogance or ignorance. Oh, hang on - knowing the place in question, probably both! |
But that is a false complaint. They are not doing away with language support. They are just moving it to a separate institution of the same Ministry.
VS |
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merry_prankster
Joined: 25 Mar 2010
Posts: 27
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| Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2010 12:13 am Post subject: |
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| veiledsentiments wrote: |
| But that is a false complaint. They are not doing away with language support. They are just moving it to a separate institution of the same Ministry.VS |
As I mentioned previously, they are only switching foundations (language development) over to HCT and potentially getting rid of ESP entirely (which actually is the real form of language support). To me, that means they are getting rid of language support?! No?
It will be virtually impossible to do the ESP courses we have created at HCT. That is a given. On the other hand, if the goal is attaining a simple IELTS score, then a generic course on offer at any place would be possible. However, there is still something to be said for the relationships and linkages that have been formed between UGRU and the respective faculties over the years. For example, we typically help faculty students with their projects and essays in our writing centers, we integrate ESL projects/work in senior levels to faculty-related curriculum, we organize most of the campus-wide clubs and social organizations, we allow student-teachers from the faculty of education to do their practice teaching in our classrooms etc. I just don't think that these things will be possible if, for instance, a student is studying in Fujerah or RAK as their faculty and admin at HCT will generally have no idea what is going on at the UAEU campus in Al Ain. |
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veiledsentiments
Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 17644
Location: USA
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| Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2010 3:25 am Post subject: |
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I agree that they can't and won't. Their job will only be to bring their basic English (math and computer?) skills up to a certain level... based on some test.
The big question mark is how long UAEU will allow support in the departments. I still think that it will depend on the Heads of the various departments fighting for it... or not. I recall many years ago at a nameless university, there were departments that appreciated the support and worked with the EFL teachers to help the students. But then there was... the Engineering department that did nothing but put up roadblocks against us... considering us "not necessary" since they were quieting teaching it mostly in Arabic anyway.
Hopefully the Provost will not completely get his way... (probably wishful thinking). His opinion is probably that if students need this much hand holding, they shouldn't be there. There is a certain validity in that opinion, but that begs the question of why it is an English medium university in the first place.
VS |
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Iamherebecause
Joined: 07 Mar 2006
Posts: 427
Location: . . . such quantities of sand . . .
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| Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 8:53 pm Post subject: |
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In my home country (the UK) all the universities I know well have some sort of language support programme. I cannot find an appropriate epithet for the UAEU provost and his barmy idea that a university does not need an academic support programme for students who need to study through the medium of a language other than their mother tongue: anything I could say here is way too tame.
The programme which HCT plans to offer to UAEU students sounds ill-conceived, and because it is to be offered outside UAEU it is out of step with the needs of university students. HCT may come under the same Ministry as UAEU but it isn't the same institution, doesn't have the same aims etc. |
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