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igorG
Joined: 10 Aug 2010
Posts: 1473
Location: asia
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 Posted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 2:37 am Post subject: |
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| Of course you can leave. Pack up and split. Easy. |
It may not be as easy for some here. Think of the aftermath for some that have attached themselves to the country. |
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Rooster_2006
Joined: 24 Sep 2007
Posts: 984
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| Posted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 5:28 pm Post subject: Re: Probationary Period? |
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| johntpartee wrote: |
| Almost every contract I've seen in China mentions a "probationary period". I'm wondering if anybody on here has ever been excused. What happened? You were let go, of course, but how did this affect future employment in China? Did they give you a reference letter with some "creative" wording? |
I got let go in Taiwan.
Since the PRC government considers Taiwan a province of China, and since the KMT in Taiwan considers themselves the legitimate government of all of China, yes, I think you could say I live in China. In fact, the place is even called the Republic OF China! And with the ECFA...
Anyways, I digress.
As for my take on probationary periods -- who cares. It doesn't matter whether you're under a probationary period or not -- you can still get canned with a moment's notice either way. It's not like you could go to the Labor Bureau or whatever even if you were fired unfairly after the probationary period. A bureaucrat would just write down your case and nothing would ever happen.
Essentially, you can think of your entire contract term as a "probationary period." Even if you've made it six months, if students are quitting in droves, you won't be staying around for long. |
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johntpartee
Joined: 02 Mar 2010
Posts: 3258
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| Posted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 6:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Did you get a letter? What did it say? Did it keep you from getting another job in China? |
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Rooster_2006
Joined: 24 Sep 2007
Posts: 984
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| Posted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 7:05 pm Post subject: |
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| johntpartee wrote: |
| Did you get a letter? What did it say? Did it keep you from getting another job in China? |
It was ugly, man, very ugly.
This was Hess, by the way.
Not only did they dump me out on my you-know-what with seven days to leave the country, they also threatened that if I went and worked for another employer, I would owe them a 20,000 NTD Training and Investment Fee! Wow! The brass balls! "You're fired! Oh, and you can't work for anyone else without paying us a substantial sum of money, first!"
I refused to pay the fee, and they dropped the issue, but seriously, brass balls...
As for what happened after that, well, it was different from what would happen to you on mainland China, because mainland China uses a different immigration system from the ROC. Actually, in Taiwan, you are technically allowed to change jobs as long as you do it within seven days of the contract termination. I rushed around like crazy, and on a lead from a friend, I found a job -- but unfortunately, it was at a hole-in-the-wall buxiban with a slimy boss who did all kinds of sleazy things like tax evasion (she pocketed all my tax money), trying to underpay us, etc. Eventually she was brought to court by the photocopier company for nonpayment, and six of her schools (she was operating a chain) went out of business. And then she lost her house.  So she seems to have gotten at least some of what was coming to her. To top it all off, she went through six secretaries in six months! A real dragon lady.
So I gave my two months' notice (yep, I was a sucker and actually obeyed her draconian contract like a good little boy), and at the end of that, she refused to give me my Letter of Release, and told me that "I'll just report you as a runaway and I don't know if you'll ever be able to work in Taiwan again." When I advised her that I had fulfilled the two-month notice requirement and doing so would be libel, she simply replied "PISS OFF!" and "GET OUT OF MY COUNTRY!" Nice person.
Well, with my new employer, we filed a new work permit application as soon as possible and it got approved. I've been working for that school for about six months now, and although it isn't perfect, I've been much happier there, I've actually been making a living wage.
Getting fired sure isn't fun, though. I'd highly recommend teaching in China on a non-Z visa even if you're eligible to get a Z visa. Go on a business visa or a tourist visa and teach -- that way, you can walk away from a snake employer without as many legal ramifications. Sure there's a certain risk of getting caught and punished for working on the wrong visa, but the likelihood of a laoban abusing you on a Z visa is far greater. |
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igorG
Joined: 10 Aug 2010
Posts: 1473
Location: asia
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| Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2010 3:00 am Post subject: |
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| I'd highly recommend teaching in China on a non-Z visa even if you're eligible to get a Z visa. Go on a business visa or a tourist visa and teach -- that way, you can walk away from a snake employer without as many legal ramifications. Sure there's a certain risk of getting caught and punished for working on the wrong visa, but the likelihood of a laoban abusing you on a Z visa is far greater. |
More and more FTs preach and practice the same. With the new database of "poorly performed foreign experts" or "guilty foreign experts" at the SAFEA, local employers have gained extra powers, which they aren't shy to use, when they feel intimidated. The chances of getting a job or getting caught in the country is quite difficult to invision. Well, you may find out how many employers agree to your terms with regards to your legal status, but you may have to do your research which employers or locations are safer to work under such conditions. |
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Rooster_2006
Joined: 24 Sep 2007
Posts: 984
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| Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2010 8:06 am Post subject: |
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| igorG wrote: |
| Quote: |
| I'd highly recommend teaching in China on a non-Z visa even if you're eligible to get a Z visa. Go on a business visa or a tourist visa and teach -- that way, you can walk away from a snake employer without as many legal ramifications. Sure there's a certain risk of getting caught and punished for working on the wrong visa, but the likelihood of a laoban abusing you on a Z visa is far greater. |
More and more FTs preach and practice the same. With the new database of "poorly performed foreign experts" or "guilty foreign experts" at the SAFEA, local employers have gained extra powers, which they aren't shy to use, when they feel intimidated. The chances of getting a job or getting caught in the country is quite difficult to invision. Well, you may find out how many employers agree to your terms with regards to your legal status, but you may have to do your research which employers or locations are safer to work under such conditions. |
Yeah, you have to look at it as a numbers game.
Chance of getting deported for working on the wrong visa: 0.1%
Chance of getting screwed by your Z-visa granting employer but still being tied down to that employer: 60%
Chance of getting blacklisted because you were on a Z-visa and your employer can actually do that because you have a Z-visa: 10%
I think that for the vast majority of people, a tourist visa/business visa is the best way to preserve one's freedoms... |
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igorG
Joined: 10 Aug 2010
Posts: 1473
Location: asia
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| Posted: Tue Aug 24, 2010 5:06 am Post subject: |
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I think you've got it quite right there, although the new spousal visas in the local police stations should raise attention of the foreign teachers and i hope i am not getting to far of topic on here. If you are married to a local for 5 years, you may get a RP which isn't so illegal to work on as i know. I certainly don't promote marriages on mainland, just raising awareness of such a fine benefit.
As for the probation, you'd have to still commit to your employer if you married. Worse than that, you'd have a double commitment then, and the local mothers in law often are demanding. |
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