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PlayadelSoul
Joined: 29 Jun 2005
Posts: 346
Location: Playa del Carmen
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Guy Courchesne
Joined: 10 Mar 2003
Posts: 9650
Location: Mexico City
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 Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 9:55 pm Post subject: |
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| That's a big change, and nice fat contract for Cambridge! |
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mejms
Joined: 04 Jan 2010
Posts: 390
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| Posted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 11:21 pm Post subject: |
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| From what I know of Harmon Hall, seems like a bizarre combination, but I'm sure it looks good for both. |
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PlayadelSoul
Joined: 29 Jun 2005
Posts: 346
Location: Playa del Carmen
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| Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2010 8:23 pm Post subject: |
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| mejms wrote: |
| From what I know of Harmon Hall, seems like a bizarre combination, but I'm sure it looks good for both. |
Not sure I understand this comment. What do you know of Harmon Hall that would make this arrangement "bizarre?" |
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mejms
Joined: 04 Jan 2010
Posts: 390
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| Posted: Tue Aug 24, 2010 3:51 pm Post subject: |
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Harmon Hall doesn't present itself as a professional, Business English oriented provider. It's cheesy, and I've always known it to have mostly high school and college-aged kids. I had one friend work there years ago. He told me that it has a very strict, fairly communicative system developed in games and interactive activities, definitely for young people. Recently graduated students are often recruited to become teachers. The idea is that the system takes care of itself, and the teachers, inexperienced as they may be, are just there to facilitate the process: show the pictures, get the students singing, etc.
I can't see Harmon Hall shifting to companies. But people buy the name, and everyone in Mexico knows both Harmon Hall and Cambridge. That's why I said that I'm sure it looks good for both. Big names coming together always wow people. |
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PlayadelSoul
Joined: 29 Jun 2005
Posts: 346
Location: Playa del Carmen
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| Posted: Tue Aug 24, 2010 10:26 pm Post subject: |
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| mejms wrote: |
Harmon Hall doesn't present itself as a professional, Business English oriented provider. It's cheesy, and I've always known it to have mostly high school and college-aged kids. I had one friend work there years ago. He told me that it has a very strict, fairly communicative system developed in games and interactive activities, definitely for young people. Recently graduated students are often recruited to become teachers. The idea is that the system takes care of itself, and the teachers, inexperienced as they may be, are just there to facilitate the process: show the pictures, get the students singing, etc.
I can't see Harmon Hall shifting to companies. But people buy the name, and everyone in Mexico knows both Harmon Hall and Cambridge. That's why I said that I'm sure it looks good for both. Big names coming together always wow people. |
I think you are working on outdated and false assumptions. I won't engage in yet another argument on the subject, but it seems that many do exactly the same as you. I would suggest doing some research into the company and how it operates. You might surprise yourself with what you find. |
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mejms
Joined: 04 Jan 2010
Posts: 390
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| Posted: Wed Aug 25, 2010 1:31 am Post subject: |
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| I think you are working on outdated and false assumptions. I won't engage in yet another argument on the subject, but it seems that many do exactly the same as you. I would suggest doing some research into the company and how it operates. You might surprise yourself with what you find. |
I wasn't looking for an argument at all. I just made a passing comment in one post that you asked me to clarify. You're right that it's always good to be more informed, but unless Harmon Hall has revamped their marketing scheme in the last couple months (which is possible if they're making the transition to working with Cambridge), the last TV commercials I saw from them definitely fit my description.
I can see, though, that HH is very dear to you and I'm not out to knock it. It could be a good school after all, but I've had lots of students pass through their doors and the best they've said is, "It's alright." |
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Enchilada Potosina
Joined: 03 Aug 2010
Posts: 344
Location: Mexico
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| Posted: Wed Aug 25, 2010 2:32 am Post subject: |
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| It's known as Harmon Hell in SLP. The franchise here doesn't have a great reputation. It's been around for a while, been revamped a few times and is just one of many mediocre schools here. |
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Guy Courchesne
Joined: 10 Mar 2003
Posts: 9650
Location: Mexico City
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| Posted: Wed Aug 25, 2010 2:40 am Post subject: |
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| Playa, here's a question. How will the move to Cambridge standards affect hiring and the HH in-house training? You briefly mentioned offering the CELTA on another thread. |
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PlayadelSoul
Joined: 29 Jun 2005
Posts: 346
Location: Playa del Carmen
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| Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 12:00 am Post subject: |
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Guy, Harmon Hall started revamping its program years ago. A complete top to bottom investigation was done and new standards were set. Those new standards are what led to the collaboration with Cambridge.
I laugh at the outdated info that appears here, from time to time. Most HH institutes are no longer franchises, as one example. |
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Guy Courchesne
Joined: 10 Mar 2003
Posts: 9650
Location: Mexico City
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| Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 1:01 am Post subject: |
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| What's the minimum HH looks for in a teacher now for a hire? Is that 4 week training program still in place? |
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TeresaLopez
Joined: 18 Apr 2010
Posts: 601
Location: Mexico City
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| Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 3:26 am Post subject: |
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| PlayadelSoul wrote: |
I laugh at the outdated info that appears here, from time to time. Most HH institutes are no longer franchises, as one example. |
That is probably the hardest thing a school has to overcome - a bad reputation. I have a friend who is a long-time employee of Harmon Hall, and has always enjoyed her job, feels she is decently paid, and has job security, so my overall impression is based on her opinion. I worked, many years ago, for Interlengua, and at the time I was well paid, felt like a valuable employee, was offered ongoing training, etc., and I kept this opinion for many years. The opposite, of course, is also true, once a school gets a bad reputation, it also takes a long time to overcome that - and it is often just based on one or two people's experience. I think a big problem for language schools is there are great teachers, good teachers, OK teachers and not so great teachers, and it's really the luck of the draw.
I know a woman who left Interlengua to direct the English program at a private school because the director of the school was a student in her class at Interlengua. Obviously she was doing something right. I know people who have gone through the program at Interlengua and come out speaking pretty good English, and I know others who have done the same with almost the opposite result. And the one thing most critics of language schools don't take into consideration is student motivation - a huge factor in my experience. I have had students who think they are going to learn English take 3 hours of class a week - without doing any homework, or study on their own, or listening to, or conversing in English outside of class. Even the most excellent teacher won't succeed with them. I minored in French in college and later took a number of classes at the Alianza Francesa. I had excellent teachers, yet I still can't speak French - I never really had anyone to practice with, or activities where I could practice. That was neither the fault of my teachers nor the school. |
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Phil_K
Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2041
Location: A World of my Own
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| Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 3:31 am Post subject: |
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| And the one thing most critics of language schools don't take into consideration is student motivation - a huge factor in my experience. I have had students who think they are going to learn English take 3 hours of class a week - without doing any homework, or study on their own, or listening to, or conversing in English outside of class. Even the most excellent teacher won't succeed with them. I minored in French in college and later took a number of classes at the Alianza Francesa. I had excellent teachers, yet I still can't speak French - I never really had anyone to practice with, or activities where I could practice. That was neither the fault of my teachers nor the school. |
Hear, hear! My biggest frustration. And I was criticized by a fellow forum member for saying that I explained this concept to my new students! |
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mejms
Joined: 04 Jan 2010
Posts: 390
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| Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 3:47 am Post subject: |
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| Hear, hear! My biggest frustration. And I was criticized by a fellow forum member for saying that I explained this concept to my new students! |
Ah, calling me out.
Of course, student motivation is everything. Almost goes without saying. I didn't have any problem with you saying so to students though. If you recall, I thought it was bad form the way you said it. Still do. But all things considered, I agree with you on a lot of things and that's water under the bridge. |
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PlayadelSoul
Joined: 29 Jun 2005
Posts: 346
Location: Playa del Carmen
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| Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 8:17 pm Post subject: |
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Guy, we train teachers for as long as we think they need. Normally, someone with a CELTA is not going to need four weeks. In cases where the prospective teacher does not have certification or experience, we spend more time with them. It is done on an individual basis and we don't let the teacher into the classroom until we know they are prepared to do the job.
Hope that answers your question.
It is true that a bad reputation is hard to counter. However, when that reputation is built on a bed of hot air, spread by supposed professionals, and repeated as gospel ad naseum, it gets a little frustrating. Seriously, I see people bringing up "facts" about Harmon Hall that predate my arrival with the company, over 11 years ago.
Cambridge chose us for a reason. Maybe some of those who work on hearsay and rumors ought to do a little more research before they speak. We weren't chosen because our uniforms are spiffy.  |
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