Job Discussion Forums

[drum]

So I am a year and a half into my teaching experience here in Japan and am now revisiting my old top-choice country to go to - Spain.

Having talked to some teachers who have taught in Europe (though I'm sure it varies VASTLY from country to country) and having spent the time here, I feel I have a better idea of things than before, but still am in the dark about a lot... Any info would be really appreciated, please!

A bit about me. I have an undergrad degree, speak intermediate spanish, have a TEFL certificate (no celta), lots of experience teaching, even beyond the experience here in Japan, am in my 20s, and I am a NON-EU citizen. My ideal location would be Barcelona.

I have begun to send out email inquiries and unfortunately so far I have gotten a lot of negative feedback. Primary reason being, non-EU/no visa, and not currently in the country... For starters, what is the difficulty/process in getting a Spanish visa? It seems tough for us non-EUs. I was hoping it would be somewhat like the Japanese way. Secure employment, they vouch for you so you can get your visa. Easy, clean, secure. Different in Spain?

Also, how much am I dreaming that I will be able to secure at least part-time employment to get my feet on the ground BEFORE arriving in the country? I have heard that even part time gigs are safe, as you can start to branch out and teach privates from there...

Any info or advice on how I ought go about things would be greatly appreciated. Cheers!

[Moore]

Ok, this is going to sound a bit pessimistic, but it's not impossible: there are some things you should understand though...

So first off, it's going to be a big shock moving from Japan to Spain: in Japan as an American you're on an even playing field visa-wise, here you're basically going to be illegal for a few years and then maybe get a visa. You will not get one in advance: only employees of major companies can get that sort of thing arranged.

Jobs are almost impossible to arrange in advance here for anyone, visa or not. There are just so many people on the ground here that employers will only choose someone who they know can start on a job the next day (which is often how it works here).

There is no such thing as secure employment here, especially without papers: it's pretty much every man/woman for themselves in the TEFL industry here even for legal workers: people get by through hard work and anticipating lean periods.

I'm afraid Barcelona would be the wrong choice for you if you want to maximise your chances: there is an awful lot of competition for work there as the world and his dog want to live there - Madrid has better prospects, but then it does not have a beach, which is a deal breaker for a lot of people.

Ok, on the positive side: a lot of non-paper holders work here, not only surviving, but thriving, through hard work, positive attitudes, and determination. Many go on to get married, others get visas via naturalisation (this takes years), others happily work here for a couple of years then head for more visa-friendly climes.

The degree, Spanish, and experience will help you, but it is a matter of jumping in and seeing what happens.

Hope this doesn't sound negative: save up some cash and come and give it a go - that's the great thing about TEFL teaching - you'll never be a millionaire, but you can be pretty certain of getting a living wage pretty much anywhere you choose to go in the world.


_________________________________________________________________________
...Jobs and language exchanges in Madrid, Barcelona, Berlin, Paris, Milan, Rome, Lisbon, Porto and Buenos Aires... www.lingobongo.com

...send your c.v. around ALL the schools in Madrid, Barcelona, Berlin, Paris, Milan, Rome, Lisbon, Porto and Buenos Aires...

[spiral78]

unfortunately so far I have gotten a lot of negative feedback. Primary reason being, non-EU/no visa, and not currently in the country... For starters, what is the difficulty/process in getting a Spanish visa? It seems tough for us non-EUs. I was hoping it would be somewhat like the Japanese way. Secure employment, they vouch for you so you can get your visa. Easy, clean, secure. Different in Spain?

I'm going to be more pessimistic than Moore, though as he says, some people do manage to make it work.

However, you should know that 1) you will not get a visa. The problem is that an employer has to argue to the national government that you have skills/qualifications that no EU member citizen has, or that no EU member citizen applied for the position for a 6 month period. This is simply impossible for a TEFL teacher. Though, as Moore says, people have been able to make it work if they survive in the country for a few years illegally, through marraige or other routes not available to newbies in the country.

2) Working without papers carries risks, though as Moore points out, in Spain apparently you are unlikely to get caught and the Schengen zone rules are rarely enforced.

However, FYI, the Schengen zone law which went into effect in January of 2009 requires that non-EU member citizens inside the zone (google for a list of countries) have 90 days maximum in the zone - after which they must leave for 90 days. You get only 3 months in any 6 month period, legally. This has eliminated the old border run option, where you could cross a border, get a stamp, and re-start your 90 days legally.

Overstaying your legal 90 days in the zone carries penalties of up to 10 years banned from entering the EU. I have not heard of anyone who got the max penalty, but I do indeed know of people who have been sent home and banned for up to 4 years. Getting caught can happen at any airport when the border officials check your passport, though apparently the Spanish ones are lax. Beware traveling in other parts of the EU, though - most border control staff are FAR more vigilant and definitely do catch people!
Further, happening to be in the wrong place at the wrong time (any sort of situation where police are checking id) inside Spain obviously sets you up to be caught.

So, though people are still doing it - the risks are real. If you're going to take the chance, you should know that repercussions are an actual possibility.

[drum]

Wow. Very detailed and informative replies. Exactly what I need to be hearing. Thank you so much! Really!

Well it's good to know that the visa route is probably an impossibility, so I don't try and bark up that tree. I may be willing to risk the illegal route, doing part-time and trying to get some privates if possible... If I could save up 2-3k Euro and just hit the ground January or so (that time of the year may be tough?) would I have chances of getting on my feet? The money I am making right now is very good, so the risk has me worried, but even if I wore to make less, but still get by, being in Europe and a culture closer to my own would be worth it I think.

I also may just see if I can marry any number of my EU friends...

If it makes any difference, I am looking to teach for one or two more years max before I pursue a graduate degree either in the U.S. or northern Europe (where I can do it in English). Does it take such a long time for one to find their feet and start making decent money that this short of a time span would not be worth the risk?

There's more questions I am sure I ought ask, but I'll leave it there for now. Thanks again for the great responses.

[spiral78]

I also may just see if I can marry any number of my EU friends... You only need to marry one

If it makes any difference, I am looking to teach for one or two more years max before I pursue a graduate degree either in the U.S. or northern Europe (where I can do it in English). Does it take such a long time for one to find their feet and start making decent money that this short of a time span would not be worth the risk?

Decent money doesn't exist in this job market. Don't expect to save up at all! Seriously, it's subsistence level. If you need savings, stay in Japan....

[Moore]

"Decent money doesn't exist in this job market. Don't expect to save up at all! Seriously, it's subsistence level. If you need savings, stay in Japan...."

...ok, we're definitely veering off into pessimism here! It depends what you call decent money of course, but several young lads and ladies I know who are less than blessed in the visa department are pulling in 2000 a month here - they work very hard and do a lot of running around, and that amount only applies over 9 months a year, but it's no so bad when you consider that a lot of locals only get 1000 a month or have no job at all.

In Madrid it is possible to make decent(ish) cash: the trouble is all the many temptations that this city has to spend that cash on things that render all but the most young and sturdy almost incapable of getting up in the morning and teaching!

I'd say just come: there's almost zero risk here in Spain - if you're prepared to work hard and be resourceful you'll be fine. It has to be said though, Spiral is totally right when he says if you want savings stay in Japan, but I'd personally say, if you want a good time then come to Madrid.



_________________________________________________________________________
...Jobs and language exchanges in Madrid, Barcelona, Berlin, Paris, Milan, Rome, Lisbon, Porto and Buenos Aires... www.lingobongo.com

...send your c.v. around ALL the schools in Madrid, Barcelona, Berlin, Paris, Milan, Rome, Lisbon, Porto and Buenos Aires...

[Sashadroogie]

I really don't think it's a good idea to advise newbies to go somewhere illegally. But it is even more dubious for anyone to act upon it. Spain may be lax on checking passports, but it only takes one trip to the hospital or traffic accident to screw you up royally. And a deportation stamp on your record does not do any favours for the future...

[drum]

Sasha - duly noted. I will definitely consider that when making my decision. It's just another reason why I think marriage may be a good option as well...

Spiral and Moore - Thanks. It certainly does sound like the money is significantly worse there. Not even enough for some cheap weekend trips around Europe every other month? If I really had some specific plan like that, I could limit my weekend outings enough to save maybe ...

The more I think about it, at my age I really not be in this for the money, but the experience. I'm too young to be worried about "saving" money. Plus I'll have more opportunities for that 5-10 years down the road when I might actually have better reasons to be saving. Student loans won't come knocking on my door for a while longer either. May just hop that fence come January.

[spiral78]

Not even enough for some cheap weekend trips around Europe every other month


Uhhh, this is when you would be most easily caught having overstayed your 90 days in the zone. You did google the list of Schengen zone members??

From my earlier post: However, FYI, the Schengen zone law which went into effect in January of 2009 requires that non-EU member citizens inside the zone (google for a list of countries) have 90 days maximum in the zone - after which they must leave for 90 days. You get only 3 months in any 6 month period, legally. This has eliminated the old border run option, where you could cross a border, get a stamp, and re-start your 90 days legally

[drum]

I did read it! I was just thinking... If I do in fact take a marriage route, then I would not even have to worry about it.

This would be the only option really, as I couldn't even border hop out of the Schengen Zone to get another 90 days, since I would have to be OUTSIDE of the zone for 90 days to get it extended. Anyway, just brainstorming. Seems there are lots of difficulties stacked heavily against me.

[spiral78]

In case you are serious about considering the marraige option, I'll clarify what that means too - because not even marraige will give you carte blanche to work in all the EU member countries!!

You should know the limitations and requirements if you are actually thinking of this:

I'll use myself as an example:

US citizen married to a Czech national. This allows me to automatically qualify for permanent residency in the Czech Rep, meaning that I can automatically work in the CR: but not in other EU member countries! I am 100% certain of this as I live and work in another EU country on a specialist visa, which required the government here to grant an exception in my case (this is very rare - I do have specialist quals).

If (in my case, when) I become a Czech citizen, I then can work anywhere Czechs can - these days most of the EU.

HOWEVER, gaining citizenship in a new country is not automatic, nor is it just a formality. I do not know what Spain requires, but to become a citizen typically requires
1. some years of living in the country - demonstrated ties there
2. good level of knowledge of the local language
3. required military service duties CAN be applied
4. you may be required to give up original/other citizenships (the US allows, but does not encourage, dual citizenship, but not all EU countries do).

Overall, you will need to do more than marry an EU member citizen - you will need to marry someone from Spain, specifically, or to go through the lengthy process to become a citizen of the EU country where your spouse originated and then you can go to Spain!