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Vince
Joined: 05 May 2003 Posts: 559 Location: U.S.
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Posted: Fri Sep 03, 2010 5:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Correct me if I'm wrong (like I need to say that), but I remember reading that the government basically mandated non-renewable contracts for foreign teachers. The way it apparently plays out is that the schools say the government requires it, and the government says it was a suggestion ultimately up to the schools. |
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womblingfree
Joined: 04 Mar 2006 Posts: 826
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Posted: Fri Sep 03, 2010 9:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Shimokitazawa wrote: |
Q. What's the first thing one does when they get a university teaching position in Japan?
A. Start looking for a new job. |
How depressing
Seems designed to make it as difficult as possible for foreigners, even qualified professionals, to settle for any length of time. |
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Mr_Monkey
Joined: 11 Mar 2009 Posts: 661 Location: Kyuuuuuushuuuuuuu
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Posted: Fri Sep 03, 2010 10:12 pm Post subject: |
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I stumbled across a rather old paper that indicated that it is a practice of Japanese organisations to develop detail-oriented generalists and temporarily employ specialists and women to provide flexibility in the workforce.
If I remember correctly, there was a legal case a few years back where a Japanese woman successfully took 7/11 to court after being summarily dismissed. She had worked there for a good few years, and the judge ruled that she was actually a full employee under Japanese labour laws, and entitled to the same working privileges and protections as any full-time employee. In terms of legal precedent, it would make any employee with more than three years of service almost impossible to dismiss without demonstration of misconduct, in practical terms.
Of course, my mind might be playing tricks on me, or I may have misunderstood the practical implications of the story I read. However, I'm sure I read the story, and its implications explain the whole "three year" thing.
I'm sure someone will be along in a minute to correct me. |
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Glenski

Joined: 15 Jan 2003 Posts: 12844 Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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Posted: Sat Sep 04, 2010 4:17 am Post subject: |
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womblingfree,
Dispatch at universities is illegal. Westgate circumvents that somehow, and even though you may find some universities that still use dispatchers, it's still illegal, and people run the risk of losing their jobs if they go that route.
As for this:
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| Who said anything about full-time contracts? None of the people I know working at Waseda have full-time contracts, it's all hourly paid stuff. |
I think people here were justified in calling you on your post simply because you didn't provide sufficient info either way (PT vs FT). Try to be clearer next time to avoid such confusion.
Bottom line is, yes, PTers can get jobs with less than a master's degree nowadays but there are a lot (perhaps the majority) of PT jobs asking for a minimum of a master's and publications. You wrote:
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| So then, it's perfectly possible to get work in universities without an MA, which is the point I and others are replying to. |
...and the answer is yes, but the vast majority of FT jobs will not take people with less than a master's degree. Again, you need to qualify how you state things.
Moreover, you can't get visa sponsorship the first year on just PT work.
| Quote: |
| If I remember correctly, there was a legal case a few years back where a Japanese woman successfully took 7/11 to court after being summarily dismissed. She had worked there for a good few years, and the judge ruled that she was actually a full employee under Japanese labour laws, and entitled to the same working privileges and protections as any full-time employee. In terms of legal precedent, it would make any employee with more than three years of service almost impossible to dismiss without demonstration of misconduct, in practical terms. |
Then again, there is the Gwen Gallagher university case. She had been teaching there FT for about 14 years, then was not renewed because the uni decided she had stayed in Japan too long and was no longer in touch with her homeland's culture enough. Two appeals in court later, Gwen lost the case.
And as far as legal precedents go, I think Japanese courts don't follow the same pattern of legal logic as the west. It's still largely case by case here. |
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PO1
Joined: 24 May 2010 Posts: 136
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Posted: Sat Sep 04, 2010 6:31 am Post subject: |
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I'm curious about this as well. If I have a Professor visa, doesn't that make me eligible to teach at universities? I may not still be qualified by certain standards (I have a Master's, teaching license, but no publications unless you count poetry ) I'll have a Spousal visa next year sometime so I realize that will at least make me eligible to pursue any kind of work for which I am qualified.
If the standard is not to let foreigners teach over a certain number of years, then how have you kept your uni job Glenski? Just wondering what has worked for you. I don't plan on having any kind of long term FT ESL career unless it involves teaching privates in my spare time or teaching PT at a uni or some other school. I'm hoping to segue into publishing later after studying lots and lots of Japanese. I'd say I'm probably JLPT 4 level now.
Anyway, yeah, wondering about universities myself. |
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gaijinalways
Joined: 29 Nov 2005 Posts: 2279
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Posted: Sat Sep 04, 2010 7:04 am Post subject: |
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I'll let Glenski answer that in fuller detail, but I would guess it has a lot to do with his degree and the university where he works as they need someone with a science background there.
shimokitazawa posted
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2 - 3 year contracts for foreign EFL teachers at Japanese universities, often with no possibility for renewal, have become the norm. Of about 65 university advertisements that I have for 2010, roughly 50 of them are terminal positions that expire in 1 - 5 years. This is not good for teachers who are in their late 30s or 40s in such an age conscious society like Japan. These contracts are fine for the younger instructors who have time on their side, but most schools are not going to be hiring teachers in their 50s.
Another issue is the cost of moving apartments and paying deposits and key money every time a 2 or 3 year contract comes to an end. Even if one does find a new position, it will involve the cost of another move. Not a good way to save money. Recycling of foreign English teachers at Japanese universities has become a fact of life and that's what people need to consider before they jump into teaching at universities here. |
It depends on where you're based. Some of the teachers I know who do full time contract work are in Tokyo, so of course there one is usually not moving house, though you may have a longer or shorter commute depending on your luck with the next contract. They often are till trying to move to more permanent employment, but as Taikibansei noted those posts are getting much more difficult to get.
I do know some people with semi-full time posts, but the hiring process they went through is a mystery to me. These kinds of jobs with 3-4 days are becoming more common, and they sometimes have no limit on their contracts and some of the same benefits that regular full timers have (office, research grant, housing allowance, etc.). Some of these jobs don't seem to be advertised, so working already at the said institution or knowing well some people who work there can be the key. |
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Imseriouslylost
Joined: 09 Nov 2009 Posts: 123 Location: Tokyo
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Posted: Sat Sep 04, 2010 8:16 am Post subject: Re: So... how is it, REALLY? |
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| AdamtheJohnson wrote: |
Been reading the forums for a few days now. Seen a lot of "doom and gloom" posts, some more realistic ones, and optimistic ones. I just want to ask a question and get an answer suitable to what I want out of Japan though.
So, say I dont care about having a tiny apartment with no cable TV. Say, I dont care at all about SAVING much money, if any. Say, I dont go out to bars, like, ever - but still want to experience Japan (specifically, RURAL Japan), meet interesting people and take in a few leisure activities once in a while (hiking trips, hot springs/bath houses, social events)......
How will my experience be, given the poor nature of the current market?
I have a Bachelor's but no experience or Celta/TEFL of any kind. I'll arrive with $3-4K and not afraid to spend it on start up.
I want to experience a new culture for a year or more, and simply not starve along the way.
What do you think? |
You're one of the few people on here that is actually aiming too low, haha.
I'm a lowly dispatch ALT and enjoy a reasonably sized apartment (I have two rooms and only use one), a car and I'm not too far from Tokyo. I also have high speed internet, a cell phone and I go out with my friends for food/drinks now and then. It's all possible on 250k a month (or less) but only if you don't live in Tokyo.
The work itself is... dull. |
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womblingfree
Joined: 04 Mar 2006 Posts: 826
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Posted: Sat Sep 04, 2010 1:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Glenski wrote: |
womblingfree,
Dispatch at universities is illegal. Westgate circumvents that somehow, and even though you may find some universities that still use dispatchers, it's still illegal, and people run the risk of losing their jobs if they go that route. |
I wouldn't recommend Westgate but if you just want a few months work to get some experience for your CV then look up the pitfalls (and there are many) and see if it's appropriate for you.
| Glenski wrote: |
| Just what are Tokyo10's qualifications? All I've read are a "TESOL MA", which is not enough for a uni job. |
| Glenski wrote: |
| I think people here were justified in calling you on your post simply because you didn't provide sufficient info either way (PT vs FT). Try to be clearer next time to avoid such confusion...you need to qualify how you state things. |
I was responding to your initial statement, unqualified and with insufficient info, that a TESOL MA is not enough for a uni job. Not only is it enough but it is sometimes not necessary.
| Glenski wrote: |
Bottom line is, yes, PTers can get jobs with less than a master's degree |
It isn't just part-time work that you can get without an MA. The jobs I mentioned at Rikkyo are full-time for three years and also offered visa sponsorship. They also hired from abroad. They may not be as good as a lot of positions but they are certainly more secure than part-time work, the classes are small, the pay is decent and the holidays are extremely long. |
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gaijinalways
Joined: 29 Nov 2005 Posts: 2279
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Posted: Sat Sep 04, 2010 3:11 pm Post subject: |
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womblingfree posted
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| It isn't just part-time work that you can get without an MA. The jobs I mentioned at Rikkyo are full-time for three years and also offered visa sponsorship. They also hired from abroad. They may not be as good as a lot of positions but they are certainly more secure than part-time work, the classes are small, the pay is decent and the holidays are extremely long. |
How long? Just wondering as usually uni full timers have shorter vacations than part-timers. fro example, whereas a part-timer would be off mid-Jan. to early/mid April and mid/late July to mid/late Sept, a full timer would be off usually during the winter break for sometimes only a few weeks due to student entrance exams, meetings, etc.) and have a little less time in the summer as they often may need to proctor exams, but still from early Aug. to mid Sept. |
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womblingfree
Joined: 04 Mar 2006 Posts: 826
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Posted: Sat Sep 04, 2010 4:17 pm Post subject: |
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| gaijinalways wrote: |
How long? Just wondering as usually uni full timers have shorter vacations than part-timers. fro example, whereas a part-timer would be off mid-Jan. to early/mid April and mid/late July to mid/late Sept, a full timer would be off usually during the winter break for sometimes only a few weeks due to student entrance exams, meetings, etc.) and have a little less time in the summer as they often may need to proctor exams, but still from early Aug. to mid Sept. |
I'll have to check but I seem to remember there was no exam work and the job just involved discussion classes. I'll see if I can get my friend working there to sign up and answer specific questions.
Even the shorter holidays you quote are really long. Most people would swap a limb for that.  |
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Shimokitazawa
Joined: 16 Aug 2009 Posts: 458 Location: Saigon, Vietnam
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Posted: Sat Sep 04, 2010 8:32 pm Post subject: |
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This thread is interesting and useful in that there is a lot of information and experience, often conflicting, here to draw from. It also speaks to the disparity in contracts terms, compensation, and working conditions of foreign university English teachers in Japan. One thing is for sure, there is absolutely no standardization in Japan when it comes to the hiring of foreign university English teachers - not even in the national or prefectural or city run universities.
In sum, you'd have to be mad to ever aspire to want to be a foreign university EFL teacher in Japan. The current situation, from what I understand, is unlivable and insane. A step in the right direction would be for foreign teachers to start saying "No" to these terminal contracts and the two-tiered sytems (one for local professors andh one for foreign professors). But with the advent of the dispatch system of teachers that can do the job for JPY 250, 000 a month instead of JPY 600, 000 a month and with little to zero benefits, I don't see universities changing. The dispatch companies have all kinds of people lined up - unqualified people - to teach as dispatch professors anywhere in Japan
Japanese university administrators must love dispatch companies! They can pay the foreign dispatch Professor half the salary of a local professor, and they do not have to pay any bonuses or retirement benefits; do not have to give promotions or raises, etc. And then, before the foreign instructors become to "Japanized" and lose their "foreignness", they can recycle these people after 2 or 3 years for a fresh batch of foreign experts.
Anyways, so the question that comes to mind is: Where is the incentive for a Ph.D in Education, Linguistics, or TESOL to come over and work a 1 or 3 year dead end job in a Japanese university for JPY 230, 000 a month? They may as well just stay home and work at Block Buster or Walmart - at least they'd get benefits. |
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Glenski

Joined: 15 Jan 2003 Posts: 12844 Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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Posted: Sat Sep 04, 2010 8:58 pm Post subject: |
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wombling,
Please be more clear about the Rikkyo jobs, ok? You keep bringing that up as if it were the rule instead of the exception. Even Ritsumeikan had FT openings at one time, but it turned out they were a specialist kind of teacher with low to zero benefits, and the jobs were offered as a substitute for the FTers that they booted out just to save money.
| PO1 wrote: |
| I'm curious about this as well. If I have a Professor visa, doesn't that make me eligible to teach at universities? |
Only from an immigration standpoint. Read the FAQs about what it really takes to get hired most of the time.
| PO1 wrote: |
| If the standard is not to let foreigners teach over a certain number of years, then how have you kept your uni job Glenski? |
Most FT uni jobs are on limited term. My job was one of the rare ones that did not have limited term.
| Shimokitazawa wrote: |
| with the advent of the dispatch system of teachers that can do the job for JPY 250, 000 a month instead of JPY 600, 000 a month and with little to zero benefits, I don't see universities changing. |
But you do see them stopping the dispatch contracts for the most part. Unfortunately, this has not been all-encompassing. |
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GambateBingBangBOOM
Joined: 04 Nov 2003 Posts: 2021 Location: Japan
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Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2010 1:17 am Post subject: |
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| Shimokitazawa wrote: |
Anyways, so the question that comes to mind is: Where is the incentive for a Ph.D in Education, Linguistics, or TESOL to come over and work a 1 or 3 year dead end job in a Japanese university for JPY 230, 000 a month? They may as well just stay home and work at Block Buster or Walmart - at least they'd get benefits. |
There isn't that incentive. Most of the people with PhDs, and also people with masters in TESOL/ Applied Linguistics in Japan are people doing them from within Japan. They do them in the hopes of getting a good university position so that they might have more security than they might in a high school or elementary school. They do them because they go to seminars on how to teach English and see that what's done in Japan, except for demonstration classes, is nothing like that. They do them because they are thinking that they may one day leave and don't want to arrive in the US, Canada, Australia, UK etc and be qualified to do nothing except Block Buster or Walmart. |
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gaijinalways
Joined: 29 Nov 2005 Posts: 2279
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Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2010 5:28 am Post subject: |
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GambateBingBangBOOM posted
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| They do them in the hopes of getting a good university position so that they might have more security than they might in a high school or elementary school. They do them because they go to seminars on how to teach English and see that what's done in Japan, except for demonstration classes, is nothing like that. They do them because they are thinking that they may one day leave and don't want to arrive in the US, Canada, Australia, UK etc and be qualified to do nothing except Block Buster or Walmart. |
And often better pay and more liberal vacation periods. The full time posts bring added bonuses and meetings with higher job security, whereas part-timers enjoy more time off, less meetings (which can be good and bad), and more freedom to work elsewhere. You sometimes can have things go for quite some time with the same schedule, as it depends on unis opening new campuses, changing departments, required/elective class labels, and sometimes the whim of a higher up dean.
As to the offered employment options in the future, I'll opt for working with the videos or perhaps with books. Helps with sleeping after a long hard day of discussion. |
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AdamtheJohnson
Joined: 10 Nov 2008 Posts: 157
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Posted: Mon Sep 06, 2010 4:12 am Post subject: |
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I'd like to get back on topic with my initial line of questioning.
Actually, I'd do Japan tomorrow, but I've heard that all the "key fees" and other start up costs can run as much as $5,000 or MORE just to be handed the keys.
Now I also recently talked to a girl who did AEON and said she did on $2,000, and she even knew a few who did it on $1,000, though it wasn't fun.
So, which is more accurate? If it's only 2K, my decision is made. But Is imply cannot do 5K or more, in six months, at my current salary.
Any thoughts? |
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