Job Discussion Forums

[Andy123]

It is amazing to me that when you catch one of the locals cheating or stealing, they get angry. Not only do they get angry but become indignant. They some how feel they have the right.

I know, I know, I have been in Asia for many, many years. "You rich, I not. You foreigner, I native. No problem, normal here. Accept."

The stealing and cheating thing I accept. It happens everywhere in the world. Many times you open yourself up to these situations by not being careful. But when you catch them and confront them, they get angry and will push it to the point of wanting to fight.

Go figure.

[hot_rock]

The whole "they hate to lose face" idea is -IMHO- a tad overstressed in general (people hate to be embarassed and look stupid anywhere in the world), but when it comes to the really serious issues, I believe its accurate. Because individual responsibility is that bit more apparant, and meaningful, to people here, the shame of being seen to be irresponsible is also mulitplied; and hence we have a greater tendancy to go into a 'panic mode' of lies, feux- or genuine-anger, and uncooperation.

In other words, the consequences for idividuals that *beep* up are higher -in general- that in the West, and these consequences are far more likely to manifest themselves regardless of whether or not the person apologises and admits guilt; as opposed to in the West where their is greater leniency for people "holding their hands up", as it were. here, you *beep* up,you've fucked up, regardless of whether you apologise straight away and promise never to do it again.

I wish you'd give some details of your situation.

there's always the chance it was you in the wrong the whole time; to be honest, I'm always going on the defensive, in what may be pereceived as a rude manner, then getting home and realising that I myself was being a tad irrational or, getting back to the OP, realising that I was forgetting the fact that the person in question was not "acting deceptively" or "being unfair", but in fact merely striving to their job responsively. Of course, the other half of the time I get home and gloat over the fact that I was in the right; my point is, think looooong and hard before you get into one of those brief, mildly-heated debates that we all know are that bit more meaningful here.

Finally, on a personal note, if you genuinely think that SE asians (or Vietnamese) are more dishonest or anger-prone than people in the West, as in some kind of inherent psycho-gene, my advice is to move back to the West.

[DNK]

[shanewarne]

Maybe you stepped on his foot. I know if someone stepped on my feet I'd be steaming with anger.

Be more careful next time.

[blateson]

Shopping in Vietnam, buying food, and even doing business is not a particularly enjoyable experience. Hassles are constantly popping up. For food it gets to the point that you know of three or four different places near your home, at least I do, and I just go to any one of them based on timings and feelings. Sometimes I will avoid a particular seller when they start to get moody, raise their prices, look at you like you aren't spending enough, or maybe a family member starts acting disrespectful. You would think that the law of business -- respect the customer -- would have some ground in Vietnam. Instead it's completely absent.

As for bigger shopping like electronics, clothing and the like, one really has to take a few yearly trips to Bangkok (few times a year). The selection is ten-fold, prices more negotiable, and although not completely non-existent, fights and arguing don't break out so easily and so often. And with so many more vendors you can easily move to the next one if you don't like what you see or hear.

Renting a room or apartment has to be one of the bigger headaches. With every little news announcement, "Water prices to go up", "Inflation," "gasoline up" and so on, they stick the newspaper in your face and kindly tell you they'll be raising your rent again. I stood my ground and, although I avoided the large increase, they openly hated my guts. The landlord (husband) was walking all around the building yelling and screaming in Vietnamese for 30 minutes after that. Still, better to be hated than humiliated.

[snollygoster]

A Viet caught out for lying or cheating? Don't be silly-they don't do that!
He he- S.N.A.F.U.
School girls play a playground game called "xao xao" and it revolves around who can tell the most believable or damaging lie.

[Andy123]

[hot_rock]

Why do you say that? Too many 'beeps' in my message? or are you attacking the actual points that I'm making? I teach at VUS, VAS and occasionally at ACET.

[Andy123]

[DNK]

Andy, that's a lot better English than most locals. Just saying.

blateson: I am curious as to how the conversation over the price increase went so badly that the guy was walking around yelling for a half hour... I can imagine some convos, but what was that one in specific?