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isabel
Joined: 07 Mar 2003
Posts: 510
Location: God's green earth
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 Posted: Sun Oct 03, 2010 5:22 am Post subject: |
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| hot_rock wrote: |
haha, nice to see a bit of spice coming back at me for a change.
I appreciate your concern, my spelling is getting worse, rather than better, as I get older. But to be honest, it goes down hill even further when typing on this message board; I'd rather spend my time getting more words down than make sure the spelling's 100% correct.
I wasn't "bragging about working at VUS/VAS, but by the way, your "50% of their teachers don't have uni degrees" figure is clearly pulled straight out of thin air, because its nonsense. I've met many foreign teachers here and very very few don't have a degree.
Thankfully I myself do have a degree, a First Class one at that and from a very reputable university. I'd rather have that than good spelling/typing skills.
ciao ;) |
I'm not sure that I could have gotten my degrees with poor spelling and grammar. There is no excuse today for poor spelling getting by- the dictionary is a click away.
I have always felt that if you have serious problems with the locals, you should find a place that is better suited to you. It is their country, after all. |
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DNK
Joined: 22 Jan 2007
Posts: 236
Location: the South
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| Posted: Sun Oct 03, 2010 5:48 am Post subject: |
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Makes a lot of sense to me, and I'm a Westerner... In fact, I've yet to see anything that really astonishes me. Most of it sort of fits in with the crappier parts of US cities or out in the sticks, which I guess is how you'd define the vast majority of this country.
hot_rock, going to have to agree that your punctuation use is ridiculous. I mean, I'm not quite sure if you're trolling or what, it is that bad, even for casual internet usage. For academic use, I wouldn't ever think that was acceptable.
RE dictionary: Firefox, it does it automatically for you. Well, this forum doesn't work for some reason, but usually... |
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hot_rock
Joined: 16 Apr 2010
Posts: 107
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| Posted: Sun Oct 03, 2010 9:49 am Post subject: |
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| That's a good point about Firefox. I only have Explorer, and yes, it doesn't seem to have a spellcheck. I presume a lot of the people criticising me do have Firefox, and in fact call upon the spellcheck regularly. |
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isabel
Joined: 07 Mar 2003
Posts: 510
Location: God's green earth
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| Posted: Sun Oct 03, 2010 10:06 am Post subject: |
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| hot_rock wrote: |
| That's a good point about Firefox. I only have Explorer, and yes, it doesn't seem to have a spellcheck. I presume a lot of the people criticising me do have Firefox, and in fact call upon the spellcheck regularly. |
Firefox is great- but the spell check doesn't work with Dave's. Download it and use it anyway- it is superior to Explorer.
(Oops- I take that back- it just corrected your spelling in the quote 3 times.) |
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Andy123
Joined: 24 Sep 2009
Posts: 206
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| Posted: Sun Oct 03, 2010 10:09 am Post subject: |
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1% of sentences employing semicolons are triumphs of style; the other 99% are pretentious wank. When thinking of using one, think carefully about which category your effort will fall into".
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DNK your professor seems to be a very wise man. Your post is straight to the point. I can not argue with your logic. Both posts were spot on.
I do not want to get into details but I was robbed again. I caught the persons and several locals came to their defense. Second time in a week. I was minding my own business. Not looking for trouble or doing anything questionable. It happens to everyone eventually, no matter where you are. It is not a local thing. Yes, some of the responsibility usually rests with the victim. I was venting.
| Quote: |
First they came for the Jews
and I did not speak out--
because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for the communists
and I did not speak out--
because I was not a communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists
and I did not speak out--
because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for me--
and there was no one left to speak out for me. |
It appears that some feel that these comments are ethnocentric. It was simple venting of bad things that happened. Bad things happen everywhere. Let us discuss them. |
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Andy123
Joined: 24 Sep 2009
Posts: 206
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| Posted: Sun Oct 03, 2010 10:17 am Post subject: |
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| Sorry, I meant that I feel that some of the posters thought I was being ethnocentric. I was attempting to state what I saw and experienced, |
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deadlift
Joined: 08 Jun 2010
Posts: 267
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| Posted: Sun Oct 03, 2010 11:51 am Post subject: |
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Literally robbed? Sorry to hear about that.
I agree that most replies, including mine, are speaking more to the "the motorbike minder tried to keep the change from 5000" kind of situation, rather than more damaging kinds of dishonesty. |
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DNK
Joined: 22 Jan 2007
Posts: 236
Location: the South
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| Posted: Sun Oct 03, 2010 4:15 pm Post subject: |
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Andy, wasn't my professor, but I sort of wish he was  |
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deadlift
Joined: 08 Jun 2010
Posts: 267
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| Posted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 12:33 am Post subject: |
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| That quote was from my post, and indeed that particular professor was joy to work with. She really made university a pleasure rather than a chore. |
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PastorYoon
Joined: 29 Jul 2010
Posts: 19
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| Posted: Sun Dec 12, 2010 10:04 am Post subject: Re: Why do they get angry? |
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| Andy123 wrote: |
It is amazing to me that when you catch one of the locals cheating or stealing, they get angry. Not only do they get angry but become indignant. They some how feel they have the right.
I know, I know, I have been in Asia for many, many years. "You rich, I not. You foreigner, I native. No problem, normal here. Accept."
The stealing and cheating thing I accept. It happens everywhere in the world. Many times you open yourself up to these situations by not being careful. But when you catch them and confront them, they get angry and will push it to the point of wanting to fight.
Go figure. |
So fight them.  |
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1st Sgt Welsh
Joined: 13 Dec 2010
Posts: 946
Location: Bandar Seri Begawan, Brunei
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| Posted: Tue Dec 14, 2010 3:18 pm Post subject: |
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It may have been just my own experience but I found the whole overcharging thing epidemic in Hanoi (eg. been quoted 100,000 dong for a shoe shine or a five minute ride on a xe om) and this happened not just in the Old Quarter. Even shopkeepers that I went to quite regularly would often try and snake a few extra dong out of me when we both knew that the prices I was usually paying came with the habitual "foreigner tax" anyway.
I just found the whole thing a hassle and as it happened so often it really started to get up my snout. I also often took my business elsewhere. I can't help but get the impression that they many of them up in the north don't play the "long game" and they would much rather make an extra 75 cents in fifteen seconds than a couple of hundred dollars over a year or so. Anyway I have since moved to HCMC and strangely never had a problem down here (maybe charged a little bit more for xe om etc). |
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just noel
Joined: 17 Jul 2006
Posts: 168
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| Posted: Tue Dec 14, 2010 6:37 pm Post subject: |
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| 1st Sgt Welsh wrote: |
| It may have been just my own experience but I found the whole overcharging thing epidemic in Hanoi (eg. been quoted 100,000 dong for a shoe shine or a five minute ride on a xe om) and this happened not just in the Old Quarter. Even shopkeepers that I went to quite regularly would often try and snake a few extra dong out of me when we both knew that the prices I was usually paying came with the habitual "foreigner tax" anyway. |
Sadly, in Hanoi integrity and morality does not exist.
Over-charging, lying, and out-right cheating happens, and it happens much more than in the south/HCMC.
Hanoians are harder, and you need to be "hard." Have backbone, argue, and definitely shop around.
Do NOT give in. Negotiate, always. Know the true price of goods. |
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1st Sgt Welsh
Joined: 13 Dec 2010
Posts: 946
Location: Bandar Seri Begawan, Brunei
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| Posted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 5:49 pm Post subject: |
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| just noel wrote: |
Over-charging, lying, and out-right cheating happens, and it happens much more than in the south/HCMC.
Hanoians are harder, and you need to be "hard." Have backbone, argue, and definitely shop around.
Do NOT give in. Negotiate, always. Know the true price of goods. |
Oh please.... so you need to be "hard" to survive Hanoi?
I have rarely seen (and I have definitely never experienced) a more pampered existence than what I have been exposed to in Vietnam (which includes Hanoi). How many places in the world can a 'twenty-something' (with nothing more than a TEFL and a BA) work only twenty hours a week, live in a serviced apartment with maids doing all their cleaning, laundry etc, go to restaurants every night, drink at bars regularly, catch taxis or a xe om everywhere, enjoy international holidays a couple of times a year, have weekly massages and still save money? Don't get me wrong - I'm not knocking anyone that comes here for the lifestyle (I am one of them) but as to the notion one needs to be "hard" to live as an expat in Hanoi - spare me!
It is true that the the lot of Hanoi's working poor is truly miserable and 'they' (as opposed to 'us') may have to be "hard" in order to get by. For an expat, however, I would be somewhat reluctant (for the reasons described above) to describe Hanoi as a bottomless pit of despair where the living envy the dead.
Now [back on topic] with the whole overcharging thing and 'Just Noel' you are dead on with the importance of knowing what the correct price for things are [newbies should talk to a local about this sooner rather than later]. Anyway it may be true that because I am not the sort of person who loses their cool over some stranger quoting them an extra five cents for a banana might not qualify me for "hard" man status in 'Just Noel's' eyes. But I guess that's just a cross I'll have to bear and admittedly my standard operating procedure for such eventualities would be usually to pay the extra five cents. But, in one case, something like this (i.e. an extremely minor incident) happened in a store that I had been a very good customer to. I stated the old price firmly once and, as she did not agree, I walked the ten paces up the road to the next shop and bought from them. Never went back to the old place.
Now when I got quoted a ridiculous figue (e.g. 100,000 dong for a xe om ride that should have been 20,000) my response was invariably different. I would just laugh at them and walk off. When they chased after me (as in most cases they did) I would not haggle with them further on the premise that they had their chance for my business and had blown it. Besides, I sort of figured that would be less likely to later try it on some newbie who didn't know any better; doubt it worked though.
Sometimes it is true that you have to, to borrow some 'Just Neal' machoisms, display "backbone" and be "hard". That happened when my landlady was [illegally] overcharging me on electricity (which seems to be very common in Hanoi) and I put an end to that nonsense very quickly.
Now for some huge generalisations [yes, I know there are going to be huge exceptions, but this is just my personal take]. I have to be honest and say that I did find the overcharging thing in Hanoi annoying but not for the reasons that 'Just Neal' stated. Indeed, if I had found Hanoi a more welcoming and friendly city, I would probably have just accepted it as a sort of 'tip' which helped out hard-working people who haven't had the same opportunities in life that many of us have enjoyed. But overcharging seemed just part of a general atmosphere and attitude that's it's perfectly acceptable to screw over anyone who is not family. I don't like living in a place like that and I can't really understand why anyone else would either. Let's also not forget that life in Saigon for working people is hardly a bed of roses either and this city also has a tragic history. But overcharging down here is barely an issue and its not because the Saigonese are 'weak'. They just seem to me to be generally more decent and honest and, for the life of me, I don't know why that is.
Last edited by 1st Sgt Welsh on Thu Dec 16, 2010 5:51 am; edited 1 time in total |
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barkwood
Joined: 15 Dec 2010
Posts: 10
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| Posted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 2:38 am Post subject: |
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| I think that the South is really more accustomed to tourists and foreigners than the North. Many more locals speak English (if, badly), and there are some very affluent Vietnamese who have spent a great deal of time outside of the country. I think it makes a difference...The Viet kieu have no problem coming and going through HCMC. Its all about business. The North is sort of like the "North" in most countries where I have lived...more conservative. |
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The Mad Hatter
Joined: 16 May 2010
Posts: 165
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| Posted: Sat Jan 01, 2011 9:11 pm Post subject: |
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[quoteNow when I got quoted a ridiculous figue (e.g. 100,000 dong for a xe om ride that should have been 20,000) my response was invariably different. I would just laugh at them and walk off. When they chased after me (as in most cases they did) I would not haggle with them further on the premise that they had their chance for my business and had blown it. Besides, I sort of figured that would be less likely to later try it on some newbie who didn't know any better; doubt it worked though. [/quote]
Exactly... someone chased after you. No one leaves you alone here. And if you have enough savvy about you to know what the going rate is, it's just going to make them chase you more. At least a newbie doesn't know what' happening, but if you do know, no matter how long you try to adjust and outfox people they will always pull the same stuff. It's almost better if you are ignorant, that way you don't waste your energy trying to come up with a strategy. |
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