Job Discussion Forums

[Knexus]

MOD EDIT I think it's important for one to consider the governments of a place before one starts teaching there MOD EDIT Culture shock can be a serious problem for new teachers, but add to that a system which perpetuates ignorance in such an efficient way that it seems to have become endemic at every tier of the system adds a whole new layer to "adapting". If you're the kind of teacher who would come to Thailand in the hopes of finding more then just beer girls and full moon debauchery, or if you are more considerate about your choice because you wouldn't come here just because you don't really have a "plan" for your life/present professional/economic situation, consider the following:

Thailand rates 3.5:10 in the latest TI corruption index. That puts it in the company of Latin American and African countries (Lesotho) and China.

I hope that generates thoughts based on quantitative information rather than hearsay. Thailand's government is constantly berated for being corrupt and it is.

The ministers of this country, and almost every single government official I have personally met, are not immune to some form of this corruption in some way. This is similar to the lack of professional, public service mindedness many who will/have taught in Thailand will berate their Thai teacher counterparts for.

Some very recent quotes:

"There will be no accidental oil spills in the Gulf of Thailand, similar to the BP Gulf of Mexico spill." - Minister of Energy

"English was not declared the official second language of Thailand because it could lead to misconceptions that Thailand was colonized in the past." - Minister of Education

The same ministry making the comment about the English language policy also got the idea, apparently partially based off of text messages sent to them during a televised "public forum", to send "hooligan vocational students" to something like a boot camp in the fatal, violent far southern regions.

My point here is that if you can't handle seeing kids getting away with constantly not doing their homework and yet getting "caned"* for, as an example, not cutting their fingernails adequately enough... If you can't stand a complete lack of something everyday like a lack of cognizant, contentious driving skills, or the rampant culturally accepted practice of having a "giik"... If you can't stand working under a system regulated by a Ministry rife with what is frankly systemized, perpetuated stupidity... Then do not consider Thailand for serious growth opportunities.

*(No, that is not a misspelling. Even though it is "illegal" students are still routinely beaten with bamboo canes in some schools in the kingdom.)

You'll find many of your expat or Western peers complaining about many of the same issues - especially, it seems, the ones who are "stuck" here for things like relationships with Thais, economic issues, ect. It's exceedingly depressing. The whole experience of living abroad and teaching here can take a very strong individual, in many ways even stronger than someone with, for example, a Hofstede caliber understanding of the subject. Either a strong individual, or one who's personality is already predisposed to the concept of "mai bpen rai".

I hope this helps the "newbie" teachers and maybe gets the "lifers" talking (or at least thinking) in a more fact based manner.

[tefl peasant]

If you're serious about teaching, you don't go to Thailand.

If you're a "lifer" as you state, you definitely are NOT in Thailand.

Thailand is a place for holiday; not for teaching.

[roguegrafix]

Bad day at the office Knexus?

[sirenii]

Tefl Peasant and others, where would you recommend new teachers go if they/we are serious about teaching? The Vietnam forum ESL teachers warned me off Vietnam (especially because I'm female), everybody says negative things about Korea (and I'm too old, I understand), I'm told Cambodia lacks infrastructure and is poorly paid, Japan is too expensive, etc. etc. I'm very drawn to Asian cultures/people/food/religion(s), so where should I be directing my search?

[winthorpe]

[Knexus]

Good question. Even though that question's answer goes out of the Thailand forum, I should offer my two cents (again) to make this thread a little more positive? What I will offer up is unfortunately hearsay (I haven't taught anywhere except America and Thailand). It's at least based on conversations with the large numbers of expats and Western teachers in my little city.

What is a general rule, Korean and Japanese schools/institutes work their people very hard. However, Japan is more similar to what we might be used to in the West, administratively and responsibility wise. I've heard horror stories though about Korean admins visiting people's houses in the night, which would add another layer to all the other usual complaints about this career (stingy admin/poor communication/even held back paychecks/ect.) I hope that further aids your consideration of Japan and Korea, but I think Japan is the best place to go if you are serious about teaching. It does sounds like a beast to get started in.

China can be a good place to teach (I have a feeling that will immediately be countered here), but, like Thailand, Vietnam, Cambodia, and Laos, the infrastructure (for education and just the country in general) can be poor or even frustratingly backwards.

Malaysia and Singapore? Don't know too much, but aside from the cost of living (Singapore for that complaint, not so much Malaysia) teaching there sounds and looks like a pretty good gig.

[tttompatz]

[exu156]

It is very difficult for foreigners coming into Thailand on holidays to fully appreciate the true character of Thai culture. I can remember a long time ago when I first came to Thailand on holidays thinking that Thais were an easy-going, friendly and relaxed people (and in many aspects they are). However there is another face to Thailand that only becomes clear when you put away the holiday mentality, put your bags down and actually start living here.

Thais have a disturbing sense of nationalism which is incredibly detrimental not only to their culture but to their development as a nation. Appeals to nationalism cloud all aspects of Thai politics and many of these appeals are a type of cover against painful self-reflection. Truth is that Thais are unable to self-critique and actually do believe that their culture is superior to every other culture on earth. A recent editorial in The Nation illustrated but one example of this nationalistic blindness. Thailand had intentions of making English a second language but it quickly became obvious that such ambitions did not match the realities of the Thai education system and its glaring shortcomings. So what to do? Was this a time for self-reflection, perhaps even some self-critique? Absolutely not! Instead;

"Education Minister Chinnaworn Boonyakiat...has scrapped a plan to make English the country's second language because he was concerned the world might be misled into thinking that Thailand was once under colonial rule from the West.
He couldn't come out and say that he had made a mistake by aiming too high, perhaps, or that he had bitten off more than he could chew. To admit a mistake or miscalculation could mean looking silly in the eye's of the public. And so instead he insulted our intelligence."

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/409644-smokescreen-of-thai-patriotism-cant-hide-our-failings/

Thailand is of course not the only country that suffers from deluded nationalism or absurd concepts of self-identity but as this country undergoes as yet unresolved political turmoil the dangers really do speak for themselves. Thailand is a police-state pretending to be a democracy. Thai nationalism is no more than (dare I say it) fascism disguised with the usual garnish of national pride. Dr. Laurence Britt, the world's leading authority on fascism, devised a list of 14 symptoms which characterize fascist nations. The more of these 'symptoms' a nation displays the more 'fascist' it is. The 14 symptoms are as follows;

1. Powerful and continuing expressions of nationalism. (This one needs no comment)
2. Disdain for the importance of human rights. ( http://www.amnesty.org/en/region/thailand , http://www.abc.net.au/pm/content/2010/s2829318.htm , http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/HRW/133519f32c2e6902f6bf8378b5db9e9a.htm )
3. Identification of enemies/scapegoats as a unifying cause. ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TFCNxRdno28 )
4. The supremacy of the military/avid militarism. ( http://www.bangkokpost.com/opinion/opinion/26867/baan-muang-columnist-chalarm-kheo, this site had an excellent article on the rise of militarism in Thailand, if you are living in Thailand go on, try and read it http://58.97.5.29/www.capothai.org/ )
5. Rampant sexism. (I don't think this one applies any more to Thailand than anywhere else in Asia so we can skip this point)
6. A controlled mass media. ( http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,,6089831,00.html , http://cpj.org/2008/12/bbc-reporter-charged-with-insulting-the-king.php )
7. Obsession with national security. (another obvious point)
8. Religion and ruling elite tied together. ( http://countrystudies.us/thailand/20.htm )
9. Power of corporations protected. ( I don't think this one applies any more to Thailand than anywhere else in Asia so we can skip this point)
10. Power of labor suppressed or eliminated. (I have no idea if this point applies to Thailand or not)
11. Disdain and suppression of intellectuals and the arts. ( http://www.fidh.org/Thailand-A-journalist-faces-criminal-charges-for , http://facthai.wordpress.com/2008/12/20/2008-thailand-blocklist-analysis-1303-new-websites-censored/ )
12. Obsession with crime and punishment. ( http://www.nationmultimedia.com/home/2010/08/10/opinion/Overcrowded-jails-are-part-of-a-vicious-circle-30135525.html )
13. Rampant cronyism and corruption. ( http://www.asiarecipe.com/corruption.html , http://www.nowpublic.com/world/thailand-crisis-continues-abhisit-named-corruption-case )
14. Fraudulent elections. ( http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Thai+parliament+speaker+suspended+ahead+of+election+fraud+trial-a0177410406 )

The above links are just quick examples to illustrate the individual points. I could have posted many more to back up the points but for the sake of space i chose not to.

When speaking about Thailand it is difficult to call it anything else than what it is. If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck then there's a damn fine chance it's a duck.

http://www.asiasentinel.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1181&Itemid=442

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TFCNxRdno28

[Mr. Kalgukshi]

This thread must focus on living and teaching in Thailand as opposed to a political discussion of Thailand.

If not, the thread will no longer be available.

[Knexus]

For other teachers:

My experience so far is that Thailand is an excellent place to be left alone to do your own thing, both socially and in the classroom. However, that laid back nature of this place has it's downers, some of which I already ranted about. I think one does well to remember that the "modern education industry" in this country has room for development and is developing. I hope Thailand continues to get some more professionals from the throngs of staycationers and those who would otherwise treat TESL/TEFL as a means to finance lifestyles first rather than to encourage language learning minds first... But that's another rant entirely.

---

MOD EDIT