|
Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Students and Teachers from Around the World!"
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Rooster_2006
Joined: 24 Sep 2007
Posts: 984
|
 Posted: Sat Oct 30, 2010 5:23 am Post subject: |
 |
|
I just finished my bachelor's degree last week. Hooray!
Now I'm actually a human being and not some sub-human piece of trash! Yay! Not that I actually ever believed that I was sub-human, but the Dave's ESL Cafe Korea forum and all its negativity towards associate's degree holders was really starting to break me...
Now that I have all this free time, I'm going to work on re-learning Java and try to make some Android apps for learning languages, probably starting with Korean. If my first app sells ten copies, that'll be a vaulting success.
Let's see if maybe I can support myself overseas on a shoestring generated from programming. That'd be nice. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
blateson
Joined: 12 Mar 2006
Posts: 144
|
| Posted: Sat Oct 30, 2010 8:18 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Wow, that's nice news. I myself am doing some distance ed classes and find that it not only takes motivation but the ongoing and endless kind (i.e. not just a month or two), as well as the ability to tackle subjects you may not like at all. Mind sharing any information, how much did it cost you, how long, perhaps which place, or so on? Did you do any of those dantes/clep courses to speed it up? Anyways, congrats. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
JZer
Joined: 16 Jan 2005
Posts: 3898
Location: Pittsburgh
|
| Posted: Sat Oct 30, 2010 8:57 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Rooster_2006 wrote: |
I just finished my bachelor's degree last week. Hooray!
Now I'm actually a human being and not some sub-human piece of trash! Yay! Not that I actually ever believed that I was sub-human, but the Dave's ESL Cafe Korea forum and all its negativity towards associate's degree holders was really starting to break me...
Now that I have all this free time, I'm going to work on re-learning Java and try to make some Android apps for learning languages, probably starting with Korean. If my first app sells ten copies, that'll be a vaulting success.
Let's see if maybe I can support myself overseas on a shoestring generated from programming. That'd be nice. |
Well, I plan to start my M.S. in Language Speech Pathology next September. I will also be leaving the EFL profession as well. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Rooster_2006
Joined: 24 Sep 2007
Posts: 984
|
| Posted: Sat Oct 30, 2010 11:12 am Post subject: |
|
|
| blateson wrote: |
| Wow, that's nice news. I myself am doing some distance ed classes and find that it not only takes motivation but the ongoing and endless kind (i.e. not just a month or two), as well as the ability to tackle subjects you may not like at all. |
True. You have to find various ways to force yourself to study, and even then, I found myself continually postponing and re-postponing exams. However, I was able to finish it simply because I knew that if I didn't finish it, I could be stranded high and dry in Asia without a degree. That's a pretty big motivator even if the classes were only somewhat interesting.
| Quote: |
| Mind sharing any information, how much did it cost you, how long, perhaps which place, or so on? |
Well, There is "how much it actually cost me" and "how much it could have cost me if I'd been smarter." I went to Excelsior College, which allows 100% transfer from other sources, so apart from the enrollment fee ($895 last I checked) and the graduation fee ($450) it's really up to you how cheap it is. Some people use CLEP tests, DANTES tests, etc. and can knock the whole thing out for under $5,000. In my case, I had already done about a year at a community college and also graduated from Yonsei University Korean Language Institute when I entered, so I had 30 credits from community college that were transferable and got another 16 credits (out of a maximum 16) by taking the New York University Foreign Language Exam for Korean. From there, I took a bunch of CLEP tests, counted an old AP course from high school, did some US government DHS FEMA courses (eight of them, one credit hour each, and I had to have them transcripted by Frederick Community College), did a bunch of Excelsior College Examinations and UExcel exams, took a course for 4 credit hours from the Game Institute (C++ Programming for Game Developers - Module I), and probably did some other things that I failed to mention here (yes, now I recall some additional community college online courses).
What this means is that I had an extreme mishmash of credits, but they managed to assemble themselves into a coherent whole when I got my AA degree last year (Areas of Focus in History and Korean) and unless there's some last minute hitch (my guidance counselor said I would be okay), I should get my bachelor's degree in a couple of months once all this paperwork goes through.
It cost me WAY MORE than $5,000 because I didn't even realize that things like CLEP and UExcel were available when I first started doing the degree. It also took minimum $10,000 in tuition to learn Korean to the point where I could get a perfect score on the NYU Korean exam. So even if the cost of that exam was $420, you have to consider that I spent thousands of dollars/hours studying Korean before even stepping into the room and taking it.
However, if you follow a plan like the one on this site, you'll be able to do it much more cheaply:
http://www.bain4weeks.com/
BTW, anyone who can actually complete a BA in four weeks would be a genius, in my opinion -- it took me about two years from enrollment to completion, but I already had about two years of credit at that point.
| Quote: |
| Did you do any of those dantes/clep courses to speed it up? Anyways, congrats. |
Yes, I took a bunch of CLEP tests by getting special permission to enter the Yongsan military base in Korea, mostly the history CLEPs (they're the easiest). I generally studied for these and other exams with textbooks acquired from public libraries/Project Gutenberg on the Internet/college libraries.
I _DID NOT_ take any DANTES tests, however. Although they are cheap to take in the US, the nearest place that offers them to Taiwan is Hong Kong, and the proctor fees are ABSURD. Because of the proctor fees, it costs nearly US$200 per DANTES exam in HK. Therefore, I just took ECEs in Taipei (usually $240, but don't have to leave the country, and you get your score report immediately), instead. I took a couple of UExcel exams in Kaohsiung. UExcels which are incredibly cheap -- you can grab 3 credit hours per UExcel for a mere $85. In fact, the UExcel Physics exam (so difficult, I had to cancel the exam session) will give you a mighty 6 credit hours for $85 (the only catch is that it is insanely difficult, and I abandoned all hope of passing it after I studied for about 100 hours and got a 29% on the practice exam)... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
adogadie
Joined: 18 Sep 2010
Posts: 82
Location: Taiwan
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2010 9:14 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Rooster_2006 wrote: |
| blateson wrote: |
| Wow, that's nice news. I myself am doing some distance ed classes and find that it not only takes motivation but the ongoing and endless kind (i.e. not just a month or two), as well as the ability to tackle subjects you may not like at all. |
True. You have to find various ways to force yourself to study, and even then, I found myself continually postponing and re-postponing exams. However, I was able to finish it simply because I knew that if I didn't finish it, I could be stranded high and dry in Asia without a degree. That's a pretty big motivator even if the classes were only somewhat interesting.
| Quote: |
| Mind sharing any information, how much did it cost you, how long, perhaps which place, or so on? |
Well, There is "how much it actually cost me" and "how much it could have cost me if I'd been smarter." I went to Excelsior College, which allows 100% transfer from other sources, so apart from the enrollment fee ($895 last I checked) and the graduation fee ($450) it's really up to you how cheap it is. Some people use CLEP tests, DANTES tests, etc. and can knock the whole thing out for under $5,000. In my case, I had already done about a year at a community college and also graduated from Yonsei University Korean Language Institute when I entered, so I had 30 credits from community college that were transferable and got another 16 credits (out of a maximum 16) by taking the New York University Foreign Language Exam for Korean. From there, I took a bunch of CLEP tests, counted an old AP course from high school, did some US government DHS FEMA courses (eight of them, one credit hour each, and I had to have them transcripted by Frederick Community College), did a bunch of Excelsior College Examinations and UExcel exams, took a course for 4 credit hours from the Game Institute (C++ Programming for Game Developers - Module I), and probably did some other things that I failed to mention here (yes, now I recall some additional community college online courses).
What this means is that I had an extreme mishmash of credits, but they managed to assemble themselves into a coherent whole when I got my AA degree last year (Areas of Focus in History and Korean) and unless there's some last minute hitch (my guidance counselor said I would be okay), I should get my bachelor's degree in a couple of months once all this paperwork goes through.
It cost me WAY MORE than $5,000 because I didn't even realize that things like CLEP and UExcel were available when I first started doing the degree. It also took minimum $10,000 in tuition to learn Korean to the point where I could get a perfect score on the NYU Korean exam. So even if the cost of that exam was $420, you have to consider that I spent thousands of dollars/hours studying Korean before even stepping into the room and taking it.
However, if you follow a plan like the one on this site, you'll be able to do it much more cheaply:
http://www.bain4weeks.com/
BTW, anyone who can actually complete a BA in four weeks would be a genius, in my opinion -- it took me about two years from enrollment to completion, but I already had about two years of credit at that point.
| Quote: |
| Did you do any of those dantes/clep courses to speed it up? Anyways, congrats. |
Yes, I took a bunch of CLEP tests by getting special permission to enter the Yongsan military base in Korea, mostly the history CLEPs (they're the easiest). I generally studied for these and other exams with textbooks acquired from public libraries/Project Gutenberg on the Internet/college libraries.
I _DID NOT_ take any DANTES tests, however. Although they are cheap to take in the US, the nearest place that offers them to Taiwan is Hong Kong, and the proctor fees are ABSURD. Because of the proctor fees, it costs nearly US$200 per DANTES exam in HK. Therefore, I just took ECEs in Taipei (usually $240, but don't have to leave the country, and you get your score report immediately), instead. I took a couple of UExcel exams in Kaohsiung. UExcels which are incredibly cheap -- you can grab 3 credit hours per UExcel for a mere $85. In fact, the UExcel Physics exam (so difficult, I had to cancel the exam session) will give you a mighty 6 credit hours for $85 (the only catch is that it is insanely difficult, and I abandoned all hope of passing it after I studied for about 100 hours and got a 29% on the practice exam)... |
Congratulations! Thanks for the very informative post. I have read some of the material presented on the Excelsior website. It looks like it takes a lot of work and effort to get as far as you did. My question is: Can you use your degree for EFL jobs in any country that requires a bachelors degree? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Rooster_2006
Joined: 24 Sep 2007
Posts: 984
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2010 3:45 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
| Congratulations! Thanks for the very informative post. |
Thank you!
I may not have the most prestigious degree in the world, but I'm very proud of the way I did it. East Asia was my classroom. I did the bulk of my studies in South Korea and Taiwan, but also incorporated various short trips I took to Japan, North Korea, and China into my studies in one way or another, especially via language courses for all three of the CJK languages, and via History of Asian Civilizations class. 
| Quote: |
| I have read some of the material presented on the Excelsior website. It looks like it takes a lot of work and effort to get as far as you did. My question is: Can you use your degree for EFL jobs in any country that requires a bachelors degree? |
That's something I considered when choosing my school, and I'll say this:
1. My AA from Excelsior (BS is complete, but I don't have the piece of paper yet) got me a work permit/residence visa in Taiwan. There was a hiccup in the process when they thought it had been completed in less than two years, but once I set them straight and showed them all the transfer credit completed over more than two years, they issued the visa.
2. Taiwan tends to be the most anal about online degrees. It is a well-known fact that Taiwan turns them down. China, Japan, and Korea do not appear to be so vehemently anti-online degree. Therefore, if it cleared the hurdles in Taiwan, it'll probably do so for most other EFL countries.
3. It is accredited by the Middle States Association of Colleges and Schools, and that's the guideline most EFL countries use to evaluate the legitimacy of a degree from New York State.
4. Even if the degree itself isn't prestigious, I got a good GPA -- 3.76 (out of 4.00). That's Magna *beep* Laude. I can always go to a good grad school for a couple of years later on and then no one will care where I did my undergrad. 
5. However, with all that said, whether my degree is acceptable or not in most EFL countries is something I cannot say. My guess is that it is fine for the vast majority, but there may be cases in which it is not sufficient. I'm not too worried, though, since Korea and Japan (the two countries that interest me the most) are fine with online degrees. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
adogadie
Joined: 18 Sep 2010
Posts: 82
Location: Taiwan
|
| Posted: Sat Nov 13, 2010 3:17 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Sounds great. I see no obstacles ahead as long as you have the physical diploma in hand. But I have heard that Korea is making it difficult for teachers, because they expect a notarized copy of a degree and and FBI check; which makes it very inconvenient for people like us not living in the sates. Anyway, thanks for the info. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Rooster_2006
Joined: 24 Sep 2007
Posts: 984
|
| Posted: Sat Nov 13, 2010 6:01 am Post subject: |
|
|
| adogadie wrote: |
| Sounds great. I see no obstacles ahead as long as you have the physical diploma in hand. But I have heard that Korea is making it difficult for teachers, because they expect a notarized copy of a degree and and FBI check; which makes it very inconvenient for people like us not living in the sates. Anyway, thanks for the info. |
Yeah, I'm not sure if I'll ever live in Korea again, but either way, I'll make sure to get a bunch of notarized copies and an FBI check next time I'm stateside (sometime next year). Can't hurt to be prepared.
Really, whether I move to Japan or move back to Korea (for the third time) is largely dictated by how their immigrations systems shape up over the next couple of years. I'm tired of being limited to one sector of the economy and having my life be unstable and unpredictable. I crave an open-ended residence visa that will give me the legal basis I need to really go native -- buy property, get a non-teaching job, and have long-term plans and ambitions within that country -- not just pocketing some quick cash, having a fun "year abroad," and going home.
Right now, Korea, with its new F-2-7 visa (open-ended residence visa available after only one year if you qualify on their points rubric) appears to be winning this race, but I've heard that Japanese PR changes are in the works, as well. I'm not going to make a final decision until at least next year, which is when Japan is saying it's going to release its new requirements and regulations for permanent residency (supposedly a ten-year wait will no longer be required). |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Solar Strength
Joined: 12 Jul 2005
Posts: 557
Location: Bangkok, Thailand
|
| Posted: Sat Nov 13, 2010 9:42 am Post subject: |
|
|
Rooster,
Japan comes close to what you describe above. Korea has that new visa after 1 year, which sounds nice and more like the Japanese visa.
In Japan, you can get a 3 year visa that is not tied to your employer. Also, you can also work for as many schools as you want.
Taiwan is the worst for visas but similar to Korea. The new visa coming out in Korea sounds good but again Japan has had this for at least 12 - 15 years now from what I recall.
PR is also possible in Japan after 5 - 7 years, or even sooner, based on some reports on Gaijin Pot.com. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
adogadie
Joined: 18 Sep 2010
Posts: 82
Location: Taiwan
|
| Posted: Sat Nov 13, 2010 11:12 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Solar Strength wrote: |
Rooster,
Japan comes close to what you describe above. Korea has that new visa after 1 year, which sounds nice and more like the Japanese visa.
In Japan, you can get a 3 year visa that is not tied to your employer. Also, you can also work for as many schools as you want.
Taiwan is the worst for visas but similar to Korea. The new visa coming out in Korea sounds good but again Japan has had this for at least 12 - 15 years now from what I recall.
PR is also possible in Japan after 5 - 7 years, or even sooner, based on some reports on Gaijin Pot.com. |
Just curious. Does Japan require EFL teachers to obtain apostilled degrees and apostilled FBI checks in order to work for schools? Or is South Korea only requiring this for public and private schools? I was offered a job in Korea, but the requirements seem very cumbersome; since I am living and working in Taiwan. I was thinking about Korea or Japan, but the weather seems much colder than here; so I might consider Thailand as well. Thanks for your input. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Rooster_2006
Joined: 24 Sep 2007
Posts: 984
|
| Posted: Sat Nov 13, 2010 11:25 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Solar Strength wrote: |
Rooster,
Japan comes close to what you describe above. Korea has that new visa after 1 year, which sounds nice and more like the Japanese visa.
In Japan, you can get a 3 year visa that is not tied to your employer. Also, you can also work for as many schools as you want. |
Hmmm... I'm not necessarily disagreeing with this, but there are some fine points in my situation that I feel the F-2-7 would be better at than just a Specialist in Humanities visa. I'm aware that the Specialist in Humanities visa for Japan allows a person to change jobs and work part, time, but here are some disadvantages versus the Korean F-2-7:
1. You can't work outside humanities (no IT work for me, basically, which is what I really want to do).
2. Unlike the F-2-7, which leads to PR in three years, the Specialist in Humanities Visa takes ten years to lead to PR. This is a much larger window for something bad to happen.
3. You can't open a business with a Specialist in Humanities Visa (correct me on this if I'm wrong). With the F-2-7, I could do just that.
4. If I went back to Korea, I would *NEVER* need to teach English again. My Korean is good enough where I can just go to Korea and become a translator or proofreader on an E-7, and after a year or two (depending on how old I am at that point and whether I've finished a master's) get the F-2-7. With Japan, I'd need to spend several years cramming Japanese to do anything economically productive except teach English.
Therefore, I'm going to have to say that at this point in time, the F-2-7 still trumps anything Japan has except for the eijuuken. However, if I'm wrong on any of these points, I welcome you setting me straight (I have only gathered these things from Internet research).
| Quote: |
| Taiwan is the worst for visas but similar to Korea. The new visa coming out in Korea sounds good but again Japan has had this for at least 12 - 15 years now from what I recall. |
Taiwan is funny. Actually, PR here (the APRC) doesn't seem to be that difficult -- just live here for five years and apply. The trouble is how easy it is to lose it -- if you go back to your country for 183 days out of a given calendar year, it's gone and you need to re-earn it! How harsh is that! I'm only 24, so I could easily have a midlife crisis when I'm 40, move back to America for a year or two, and come back to Taiwan to find that my whole life in Taiwan has been ruined because I lost my so-called "permanent" residency.
| Quote: |
| PR is also possible in Japan after 5 - 7 years, or even sooner, based on some reports on Gaijin Pot.com. |
Could you please provide me with the link? Because I'd love to read about that. I've been chasing down info on the new PR regulations for a solid year, but can't find a single thing written more recently than the summer of '09. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
adogadie
Joined: 18 Sep 2010
Posts: 82
Location: Taiwan
|
| Posted: Sat Nov 13, 2010 3:28 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Rooster_2006 wrote: |
| Taiwan is funny. Actually, PR here (the APRC) doesn't seem to be that difficult -- just live here for five years and apply. |
Doesn't one have to have earned a minimum amount of money each year verified by tax documents for five years before he/she qualifies for an APRC? I don't think that living and working in Taiwan for five years automatically qualifies one for an APRC. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
creztor
Joined: 30 Dec 2009
Posts: 476
|
| Posted: Sat Nov 13, 2010 4:10 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Correct. You need to prove you are financially "sound" etc, and there is a lot of paperwork. I don't believe it is really that hard, and if you held a teaching job straight for five years, then there should be no problem getting your APRC. However, what is the point? As Rooster already mentioned, spend 1 day too many outside of the country and it is all gone. I'll keep my JFRV.
| adogadie wrote: |
| Rooster_2006 wrote: |
| Taiwan is funny. Actually, PR here (the APRC) doesn't seem to be that difficult -- just live here for five years and apply. |
Doesn't one have to have earned a minimum amount of money each year verified by tax documents for five years before he/she qualifies for an APRC? I don't think that living and working in Taiwan for five years automatically qualifies one for an APRC. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Rooster_2006
Joined: 24 Sep 2007
Posts: 984
|
| Posted: Sat Nov 13, 2010 5:15 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| creztor wrote: |
Correct. You need to prove you are financially "sound" etc, and there is a lot of paperwork. I don't believe it is really that hard, and if you held a teaching job straight for five years, then there should be no problem getting your APRC. However, what is the point? As Rooster already mentioned, spend 1 day too many outside of the country and it is all gone. I'll keep my JFRV.
| adogadie wrote: |
| Rooster_2006 wrote: |
| Taiwan is funny. Actually, PR here (the APRC) doesn't seem to be that difficult -- just live here for five years and apply. |
Doesn't one have to have earned a minimum amount of money each year verified by tax documents for five years before he/she qualifies for an APRC? I don't think that living and working in Taiwan for five years automatically qualifies one for an APRC. |
|
The worst part of the APRC process would be getting an APRC and realizing you could never again live in your home country for more than six months in one calendar year, ever again, without losing the APRC...
Surely there must be some way around this...
In the case of Japan, they only require that you visit once every three years and buy a reentry permit to maintain eijuuken, once you have achieved eijuuken. Not sure about Korea, though I should research it. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
adogadie
Joined: 18 Sep 2010
Posts: 82
Location: Taiwan
|
| Posted: Sun Nov 14, 2010 4:54 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Rooster_2006 wrote: |
| creztor wrote: |
Correct. You need to prove you are financially "sound" etc, and there is a lot of paperwork. I don't believe it is really that hard, and if you held a teaching job straight for five years, then there should be no problem getting your APRC. However, what is the point? As Rooster already mentioned, spend 1 day too many outside of the country and it is all gone. I'll keep my JFRV.
| adogadie wrote: |
| Rooster_2006 wrote: |
| Taiwan is funny. Actually, PR here (the APRC) doesn't seem to be that difficult -- just live here for five years and apply. |
Doesn't one have to have earned a minimum amount of money each year verified by tax documents for five years before he/she qualifies for an APRC? I don't think that living and working in Taiwan for five years automatically qualifies one for an APRC. |
|
The worst part of the APRC process would be getting an APRC and realizing you could never again live in your home country for more than six months in one calendar year, ever again, without losing the APRC...
Surely there must be some way around this...
In the case of Japan, they only require that you visit once every three years and buy a reentry permit to maintain eijuuken, once you have achieved eijuuken. Not sure about Korea, though I should research it. |
I have read that Taiwan Immigration policy on APRC is based on reciprocity. Taiwanese and other expats seeking US green cards also have to satisfy the 183 day rule and keep their residence year round or risk losing their green cards. I have noticed when the US increases charges for Taiwanese US visitor visas, then guess what, the Taiwanese immigration increases their rates on Americans. China does this as well.
http://britishexpats.com/forum/showthread.php?t=84514 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
This page is maintained by the one and only Dave Sperling.
Contact Dave's ESL Cafe
Copyright © 2018 Dave Sperling. All Rights Reserved.
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
