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tefl peasant
Joined: 09 Oct 2010
Posts: 132
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 Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2010 2:00 pm Post subject: |
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China was so annoyingly in the dark ages that I left...unfotunately for....Vietnam.
find a good landlord who is not nosy and does not care. |
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Kirkpatrick
Joined: 27 Feb 2008
Posts: 205
Location: China
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| Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2010 4:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Life in China is definately rough..Lived there 2 years and got tired being treated like a second class citizen and left... Racism in China is wide spread and there is definetely a double standard... I am currently in Turkey and finally found a Apartment with out the gate guard.... I am sure you can get housing in China with out the gate guard( no life if you got one).. You also , have to watch out at the local store where you buy your booze... This will be reported back to your boss.. Good luck on getting a local girl into your flat... |
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7969
Joined: 26 Mar 2003
Posts: 5782
Location: Coastal Guangdong
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| Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2010 8:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Kirkpatrick wrote: |
| Life in China is definately rough..Lived there 2 years and got tired being treated like a second class citizen and left... Racism in China is wide spread and there is definetely a double standard... I am currently in Turkey and finally found a Apartment with out the gate guard.... I am sure you can get housing in China with out the gate guard( no life if you got one).. You also , have to watch out at the local store where you buy your booze... This will be reported back to your boss.. Good luck on getting a local girl into your flat... |
this post is so full of wild generalizations that it's not really worth paying attention to. you appear to be one of the people that had problems with everyone and in every area of life in china. i suggest the real problem may have been a lot closer to home. |
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Trifaro
Joined: 10 Nov 2010
Posts: 152
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| Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2010 10:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Food for thought - some people just don't like bending over to please the powers that be. I agree with the snitches allusion; carry a black bag and frequent different shops! |
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DixieCat
Joined: 24 Aug 2010
Posts: 263
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| Posted: Sat Nov 13, 2010 12:54 am Post subject: |
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Note that above that, it is stipulated the the FT will "observe the laws, decrees, and relevant regulations enacted by the Chinese government and shall not interfere in China's internal affairs."
The standard SAFEA contract does specify 'whose customs and standards" - Chinese. And your employer is the arbiter of what is offensive to the Chinese sensibilities.
Bluntly getting to the chase here, there is no "right" to fornicate in China. I know that seems shockingly unfair to some, but that is the law, however selectively and seemingly unfairly enforced. |
An addition to a contract does not make it "law" and the smart thing to do would be to add the applicants own addendum as to visitors and the length of time that they can occupy the premises. If the SAFEA contract is any good (in my opinion it isn't) arbitration is not in the hand of the employer.
Fornication doesn't seem to be the problem here but the location of said fornication. Another smart consideration is to remove oneself from the confines of the employers influenced as to who can visit and at what time by never accepting employment where the owner controls the housing and instead negotiate for more money such as a non taxable housing allowance. |
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Teatime of Soul
Joined: 12 Apr 2007
Posts: 905
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| Posted: Sat Nov 13, 2010 1:42 am Post subject: |
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| An addition to a contract does not make it "law" and the smart thing to do would be to add the applicants own addendum as to visitors and the length of time that they can occupy the premises. |
Actually, an addition to a contract is an addendum, and the addendum to the contract has equal weight to the body of the contract, (this applies to the SAFEA contract too).
The discussion at hand is not an addition to the contract, but enforcement of the "morals clause" which, most clearly, is in the contract; this issue may or may not be addressed in any contract addendum.
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| If the SAFEA contract is any good (in my opinion it isn't) arbitration is not in the hand of the employer. |
If, by "good" you mean "legally enforceable", then that would be a novel legal theory which nullifies every SAFEA contract in China. Interesting opinion. Quite plainly arbitration is not in the hands of the employer as the standard SAFEA contract clearly stipulates that binding arbitration services will be provided by SAFEA.
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| Another smart consideration is to remove oneself from the confines of the employers influenced as to who can visit and at what time by never accepting employment where the owner controls the housing and instead negotiate for more money such as a non taxable housing allowance. |
100% agree. |
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wangdaning
Joined: 22 Jan 2008
Posts: 3154
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| Posted: Sat Nov 13, 2010 4:54 am Post subject: |
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As far as guests go, you could just flaunt it in there face. Pretend to whoever is trying to talk to you that you and your guest don't know any Chinese. This would usually only become an issue at contract renewal (but who is renewing that).
The other issue, and the one you need dealt with, is locking you out. I have never seen a school in China that closes its gates, but I am sure they are there. At my place I can stumble past at 4am with a beer and my hand, yes they will giggle, but there are no blocks on it (and I have the key to the gate at my flat). You are not a student, whose curfew is usually 11, and you should not be treated like one.
Do the Chinese professors have housing at the same campus as you?
If so do they have to follow these rules?
I would ignore the guest thing and fight for the curfew. Not seeing your accommodations I would only recommend you tell them you want 24/7 access to your house. |
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DixieCat
Joined: 24 Aug 2010
Posts: 263
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| Posted: Sat Nov 13, 2010 7:18 am Post subject: |
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| Quite plainly arbitration is not in the hands of the employer as the standard SAFEA contract clearly stipulates that binding arbitration services will be provided by SAFEA. |
I would disagree that arbitration by SAFEA is binding no matter what the contract sez as the law doesn't provide for that and the next step is the courts.
As to arbitration not being in the hands of the employer I agree and was merely pointing out the flaw of your post which reported...
Teatime of Soul
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The standard SAFEA contract does specify 'whose customs and standards" - Chinese. And your employer is the arbiter of what is offensive to the Chinese sensibilities.
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| The discussion at hand is not an addition to the contract, but enforcement of the "morals clause" which, most clearly, is in the contract; this issue may or may not be addressed in any contract addendum. |
Addendum's are rarely consider by any governing body although by including visitation right in the addendum one may sidestep any problems encountered by the morals clause. |
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Teatime of Soul
Joined: 12 Apr 2007
Posts: 905
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| Posted: Sat Nov 13, 2010 8:15 am Post subject: |
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| DixieCat wrote: |
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| Quite plainly arbitration is not in the hands of the employer as the standard SAFEA contract clearly stipulates that binding arbitration services will be provided by SAFEA. |
I would disagree that arbitration by SAFEA is binding no matter what the contract sez as the law doesn't provide for that and the next step is the courts.
As to arbitration not being in the hands of the employer I agree and was merely pointing out the flaw of your post which reported...
Teatime of Soul
| Quote: |
The standard SAFEA contract does specify 'whose customs and standards" - Chinese. And your employer is the arbiter of what is offensive to the Chinese sensibilities.
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| The discussion at hand is not an addition to the contract, but enforcement of the "morals clause" which, most clearly, is in the contract; this issue may or may not be addressed in any contract addendum. |
Addendum's are rarely consider by any governing body although by including visitation right in the addendum one may sidestep any problems encountered by the morals clause. |
1. You seem to have confused how arbiter is used versus arbitrator. While all arbitrators are arbiters, not all arbiters are arbitrators.
2.
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| Addendum's are rarely consider by any governing body although by including visitation right in the addendum one may sidestep any problems encountered by the morals clause. |
Since governing bodies have an executive function rather than a judicial function, it is no more surprising a governing body would rarely consider contract disputes any more than it would be surprising a house cat would rarely consider space travel.
As has been repeatedly stated on this thread, a contract addendum may offer a remedy to this issue. |
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DixieCat
Joined: 24 Aug 2010
Posts: 263
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| Posted: Sun Nov 14, 2010 2:16 am Post subject: |
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Then what penalties are given if the results of arbitration are not honored?
There are none stated and no example of any given. If an employer doesn't want to abide by the decision, there is no enforcement. |
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mat chen
Joined: 01 Nov 2009
Posts: 494
Location: xiangtan hunan
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| Posted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 10:34 am Post subject: |
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| Why all the fuss. Be like the students. Every university in China has two things. They have small hotels all around the campus for the students to rent at a very low price. Now the students and everyone else will tell you that they don't partake in these immoral acts but why the heck are so many stores selling protection. It is important that you go along with the hypocracy and keep this information to your self. |
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Teatime of Soul
Joined: 12 Apr 2007
Posts: 905
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| Posted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 1:45 pm Post subject: |
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Mat,
Everybody knows those small hotels around the university are for students who need to rest between exams. |
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sainthood
Joined: 15 Nov 2010
Posts: 175
Location: Somewhere over the rainbow
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| Posted: Fri Nov 19, 2010 4:11 pm Post subject: |
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Just to throw my 2jiao into the discussion....
Firstly - the problem. From my experience, which isn't a lot but still... if you don't give them a reason to enforce any part of the contract, then they will leave you alone and you can do what you want. If, OTOH, if you are a problem employee, or people complain about you (to the right other people), then they'll be all over you like fleas on a dog.
So, play the game (which it all is). Be a good teacher, make the students happy, tell management everything is great.... and you can get away with murder (almost literally.... we had one teacher who has punched students, destroyed mobile phones, and all while taking students back to his apartment... he got on well with the university president, so he stayed on...).
As for these 'rights' that some people have mentioned... hahahahaha..... this is China, and you are a foreigner. Above all 'rights' is the right for them to cancel your contract, cancel your visa, and have you physically thrown out of the country. Any 'arbiter' that might get involved isn't going to stop this if the university decides they don't you any more. And with the 'moral customs of China' clause, they can use any excuse they like. As someone has mentioned, this place is still fairly racist.
Besides, remember, you are here by invitation... that invitation can be univited in short order!
OP - firstly, find out the real situation, before you go doing anything rash! You might just find out that no-one really cares, and it's just in the contract 'just in case' (ie, a legitimate excuse to fire you after you've annoyed the wrong person sufficiently). While many of us 'westerners' have the saying 'rules were meant to be broken', in China, it's almost like 'rules were meant to be followed' (ie, you need a good reason to actually follow them...). |
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daCabbie
Joined: 02 Sep 2007
Posts: 244
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| Posted: Sat Nov 20, 2010 12:00 am Post subject: |
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When I moved to my recent school, I went to the local police substation. A hole in the wall type place, not the big one downtown. I registered my residene there. On the form I signed it mentioned no guests after 11. The form looked as old as my grandmother.
I have had three private residences in China and that was the only time I ever saw it on a goverment/police document. China is a little slow on the out with the old.
I have also heard that members of the Party and the Army are not allowed to invite foreigners into thier homes. I also knew a guy once who couldn't go to his Chinese girlfriends home because of the part of town where it was located. Something to do with industrial secrets and its location to a sensitive factory.
Just my two cents. |
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DixieCat
Joined: 24 Aug 2010
Posts: 263
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| Posted: Sat Nov 20, 2010 2:31 am Post subject: |
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| I believe there are 7 Army regions in China so the possibility of one that doesn't allow fraternizing could be very real, however.. I have often had and still do have current military, police and former military attend my functions and have been to their houses, parties and even a Military old age home.... |
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