Job Discussion Forums

sheikher · Joined: 13 Jul 2009 Posts: 291

Try "successfully mismanage".

Linguist · Joined: 22 Feb 2006 Posts: 202

... 'successfully failed' (managing) the world�s largest English language programme.

Causes?

desert_traveller · Joined: 28 Nov 2006 Posts: 335

what gives you guys this idea of failure on bell's behalf? as far as i know they are doing pretty well, they have a huge contract, they are fairly stable and they are making tons of money

where exactly is the 'failure' in that?

or is it that some people just want to see them fail or are simply jealous of their success?

there are issues with bell, just like anywhere else, but failure? that's just wishful thinking on behalf of some disgruntled individuals (which is quite sad, in my humble opinion)

sheikher · Joined: 13 Jul 2009 Posts: 291

This little item here may be revealing. http://obrag.org/?p=20423

With respect to the item's paragraph 12: There were also quite long exchanges about teacher�s rights under Saudi labor law and whether a Saudi company (Obekan) had the right to demand employee�s passports (Obekan did, and everyone who signed a contract with Bell complied.). Unfortunately, no one could say anything definitive about these issues.

Herewith let it be known:

A recent decree by the Saudi Council of Ministers explicitly provides that an alien employee is entitled to keep his travel documents and the travel documents of his family. The employee also has the right to travel anywhere in Saudi Arabia without showing documentation, which was previously required. [footnote #85]

85. Mohamed Y. Mattar, �Trafficking in persons, especially women and children, in countries of the Middle East: the scope of the problem and the appropriate legislative responses�, Fordham International Law Journal, vol. 26, No. 3 (2003), pp. 729 ff. Saudi Arabia, Council of Ministers Decision No. 166 of 12/7/1421 AH regulating relations between migrant workers and their employers further stipulates as follows:
Employers shall not retain the passports of migrant workers or the passports of members of their families. Migrant workers shall be entitled to freedom of movement within the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia provided that they hold a valid residence permit. Migrant workers may apply to governmental and other bodies to avail themselves of the services needed to ensure a decent life for themselves and their families, such as the issuance of driving licenses, the purchase of motor vehicles, telephone connections etc., without being obliged to obtain the consent of their employers. The term �sponsor� shall be invalid wherever it appears and shall be replaced by the term �employer�.
The Decision also makes provision for the establishment of a special committee to resolve any problems arising from its application (see �National report submitted in accordance with paragraph 15 (a) of the annex to Human Rights Council resolution 5/1: Saudi Arabia� (A/HRC/WG.6/4/SAU/1)).

http://www.unodc.org/documents/human-trafficking/Islamic_Law_TIP_E_ebook_18_March_2010_V0985841.pdf

teach star · Joined: 06 Oct 2010 Posts: 10

It's true teachers are routinely asked to work a 6th day in a week, invigilating an exam or teaching 'remedial' classes. Why 'remedial classes'? Because the student registration process and placement process was such a mess that it took several weeks, so a significant number of students didn't start coursework on time and got behind. So the teachers had to work extra hours to clean up the mess.
There is a provision in the contract for occasional extra hours, but when there are groups of new teachers who are seen day after day sitting and doing nothing, those who are teaching full hours and asked to work extra feel the situation is unfair.
There are new resignations and will continue to be more resignations. It is not a nice place to work. Bell is an equal partner with Obeikan and despite trying to project a 'nice guy' image to teachers, they take their profits and in effect condone everything Obeikan does. Bell led teachers to believe that they would be able to apply for annual leave in February and April when the students don't have classes. But now, Obeikan's new leave policy, announced in October, says teachers cannot apply for this leave. Bell has done nothing to address this.
The high day-to-day stress levels are caused by things like:
-excessive tedium: too many forms, extra requirements continuing to be piled on
-last-minute, unnanounced meetings cutting into planning time
-punitive HR practices. E.g.-one day "unexcused absence" results in 2 or more days of confiscated pay
-unresponsive management

Linguist · Joined: 22 Feb 2006 Posts: 202

scot47 · Joined: 10 Jan 2003 Posts: 15343

The Arabic expression to describe this sort of statement is crisp and eloquent

"Kalam Fadhi" (= "EMPTY WORDS")

http://www.unodc.org/documents/human-trafficking/Islamic_Law_TIP_E_ebook_18_March_2010_V0985841.pdf

(Correctd)

Al-Mansoor · Joined: 15 Aug 2010 Posts: 76 Location: Here

Al-Mansoor · Joined: 15 Aug 2010 Posts: 76 Location: Here

7168Riyadh · Joined: 19 Jan 2009 Posts: 149

So, you're thinking about working on KSU's PYP programme.

Let's face it--you need some dough. That was me in Aug 2008. I applied. I got the job. I survived two years. There's not much to add, apart from what I've said on this forum, except to quote this excerpt from a friend, Adulrahman:

"just a quick update on ksu: they will not have any leave holidays for the whole year, apart from the upcoming eid-al-adha religious holiday, and from now on a number of teachers will have to go in on thursdays to give (check this out) remedial classes for students who are falling behind. the remedial classes are voluntary for students and an individual teacher would not have to do more than a few thursdays per semester, but still, the message is that the weekend is not sacred anymore. quick fact: 47% of the teachers from last year re-signed for this year. i think it was a wise move for you to leave, and i dont mind not being there either. its a sinking boat"

When I applied back in Aug 2008, it was just about worth doing. Now, it's not worth applying for anyone with any serious qualifications/experience.

Good Luck, and good riddance

Wicked_Witch · Posted: Sun Dec 05, 2010 4:52 pm Post subject: Eid-al-adha Holiday

7168Riyadh says "apart from the upcoming eid-al-adha religious holiday"

My calendar says Eid-Al-Adha was Nov 17th.

Cleopatra · Posted: Sun Dec 05, 2010 5:07 pm Post subject: Re: Eid-al-adha Holiday

Captain Willard · Joined: 11 Sep 2010 Posts: 251

Thank you for this, old boy.

A good lawyer always cites his/her source. Well done!

I vote that your information be made a sticky!

Someone else here keeps posting misinformation about how the law in S.A. allows employers to keep passports. (Since this same person denies that entry visas stamped in a passport under the heading "visas" are in fact visas, her credibility is rather suspect.)

People need to just say "no" to non-governmental people who want to hold the property of a sovereign government.

sheikher · Joined: 13 Jul 2009 Posts: 291

As I have stated innumerable times in these threads, an employer who requests an employee's passport for long-term "safekeeping" must seek permission from that employee's consulship. That request should be documented, and a documented reply should be conveniently forthcoming.

This pertains also to the common practise of exchanging an employee's passport for the plastic temporary residency card (iqama).

I suspect that any teacher placing that bureaucratic obstacle in the way of the employer's request would achieve an immediate reviewal of the "policy".

Again, a citizen is merely the temporary steward, not the owner, of a passport. Words to the effect of "This passport is the property of the Government of ____" is printed on the cover's verso. This statement may be shown to the employer (with emphasis if required).

desertdawg · Joined: 14 Jun 2010 Posts: 206

To the last two posters. Have either of you actually worked in Saudi Arabia or tried to hang on to your passport if you have been in Saudi?

When you enter the country you receive an entry stamp in your passport. When you leave the country you receive an exit stamp in your passport. NOT visas.

If you come to Saudi Arabia there will be a visa already in your passport or the airline will not let you on the plane. After you have arrived, by all means hang on to your passport. BUT:

1. You will not be legal. Your sponsor needs your passport to get you an iquama.

2. You cannot use your passport for its purpose of international travel. Your sponsor needs the passport to get you an exit visa to allow you to leave the country.

The reality is if you have a business visa, then you keep hold of your passport and have free movement although you are working illegally. You have in effect a multi exit reentry visa. Indeed you must leave the country ever month.

I personally wouldn't consider working for an employer that doesn't allow multi exit reentry visas. With the multi you have freedom of movement. Even if the sponsor does "look after" your passport, you simply fill in a form to request your passport a few days before and it should be there.

Reality and legality are not the same. In many countries, not just KSA, you are beholden to your employer/sponsor. They have to apply for an exit visa on your behalf. So need to keep your passport. Not an ideal situation but that's life.