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jpvanderwerf2001
Joined: 02 Oct 2003
Posts: 1117
Location: New York
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 Posted: Mon Nov 22, 2010 11:11 pm Post subject: |
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Get qualified, have some sort of plan, take advantage of opportunities, and you won't find yourself working for peanuts. And, anyway, money ain't everything, is it? 
I look at my buddies back home who have "real" jobs...just wait, they HAD "real" jobs and are now in the six-month process (if they're lucky) of finding new ones, quite possibly at lower pay than their last. Suddenly my career track doesn't look so bad.
ELT is just like any other field: Work hard and good things will come.
Too many people out there have a sense of entitlement. |
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tttompatz
Joined: 06 Mar 2010
Posts: 1951
Location: Talibon, Bohol, Philippines
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| Posted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 12:08 am Post subject: |
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| jpvanderwerf2001 wrote: |
Get qualified, have some sort of plan, take advantage of opportunities, and you won't find yourself working for peanuts. And, anyway, money ain't everything, is it?
I look at my buddies back home who have "real" jobs...just wait, they HAD "real" jobs and are now in the six-month process (if they're lucky) of finding new ones, quite possibly at lower pay than their last. Suddenly my career track doesn't look so bad.
ELT is just like any other field: Work hard and good things will come.
Too many people out there have a sense of entitlement. |
I have to go with this one.
Teaching was never the best paying of professions and anyone who went into teaching (anything not just ESL) simply for the money was in the wrong career path anyway.
That said, as a career, ESL is not a bad way to go.
If you have the basic qualifications (degree and TESOL cert) you have lots of doors open for you.
Like any other job, put in your time, network and move up the ladder either into management (boring and not paid much better) or as you gain experience you move to greener pastures with better benefits.
As a specific example, over the last 10 years (in Asia) I have managed to save a tidy nest-egg, buy 5 hectares of land and build a 4 bedroom house on it with NO MORTGAGE!
Our family usually takes 1-3 trips abroad (Asia) each year (depending on holiday schedules) or spend our 3-4 months of vacation time doing things we enjoy.
Then there are the intangible benefits that teachers (as a profession) enjoy - the success of your students.
bottom line:
Is teaching the best paid of the professions = no.
(if you want to make money become a doctor or nurse).
Is teaching a decent career path = depends on the teacher.
(it is not for everyone - it takes a special breed to be a dedicated teacher long term).
Can you do well as an ESL teacher = yes ...
IF you put in the time and work at it (move as necessary - don't get tied to any one country).
Are savings possible = YES.
Depending on where you end up at (and your lifestyle) the savings at the end of the year (in most places) can easily top US$12,0000+ (as a single wage earner with a family) while still enjoying a comfortable lifestyle (with all the mod cons) and travel.
Long term - what are the prospects for ESL?
It is a growth industry and will continue to be so as long as English remains the lingua franca.
As an example - SAFEA is predicting a demand for more than 500,000 (yes, 1/2 million) ESL teachers over the next decade in China alone. Then you can add the other 100,000 teaching positions in the rest of Asia (30k in Korea, 20k in Japan, 15k in Thailand, 35k in the rest of SE Asia.
IF you are unqualified - get some. It vastly improves your income potential as well as career choices.
If you are qualified and take a McJob in the local McSleezy Langage Academy then you get what you asked for. (you should have known better).
If you take a job in China at 3000rmb when there are lots of positions available at 8000 then hey, you have no reason to complain that there is no money and the benefits are substandard. You chose it. IF you don't like it - MOVE.
Spend the time, find a decent position and work your way up (by adding experience, credentials and changing jobs/countries) to where you reach your comfort level.
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sainthood
Joined: 15 Nov 2010
Posts: 175
Location: Somewhere over the rainbow
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| Posted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 6:19 am Post subject: And one glaringly obvious example that's been overlooked.... |
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Where in the world do you want to work?
As an ESL teacher, most of the world is your oyster.
My plan is to get the MAppLing finished (by July next year), do a CELTA (better than my dodgey TESOL 'diploma'), and then be an IELTS examiner. Fairly short, quick and painless route to a bucketload (or not) of cash, where people pay me to fly around the world, meet interesting people, have lots of great (and, occasionally, bad) food, see some of the worlds iconic landmarks, all while being paid almost tax-free with free accommodation....for only 16 real hours of work each week. Is that a McJob??? (oh, forgot the 4 months holidays, or so... mostly paid!)
I did a quick guestimate of what I would need to be paid in Australia to get my lifestyle here... take into account Aussie tax, and about $200/week in rent... and I'm really earning the equivalent of about $95,000AU.(Ok, maybe not that high... but I can easily grab a train to Beijing or Shanghai ... can't do that from Oz.. or the US, UK or anywhere else.....).
This year it's China, next year it might be Turkey, after that...??? Morocco? KSA? Spain? Argentina? I don't know.... but I know that I have the choice!  |
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naturegirl321
Joined: 04 May 2003
Posts: 9041
Location: home sweet home
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| Posted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 8:13 am Post subject: Re: And one glaringly obvious example that's been overlooked |
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| sainthood wrote: |
My plan is to get the MAppLing finished (by July next year), do a CELTA (better than my dodgey TESOL 'diploma'), and then be an IELTS examiner. Fairly short, quick and painless route to a bucketload (or not) of cash, where people pay me to fly around the world, meet interesting people, have lots of great (and, occasionally, bad) food, see some of the worlds iconic landmarks, all while being paid almost tax-free with free accommodation....for only 16 real hours of work each week. Is that a McJob??? (oh, forgot the 4 months holidays, or so... mostly paid!)
I did a quick guestimate of what I would need to be paid in Australia to get my lifestyle here... take into account Aussie tax, and about $200/week in rent... and I'm really earning the equivalent of about $95,000AU.(Ok, maybe not that high... but I can easily grab a train to Beijing or Shanghai ... can't do that from Oz.. or the US, UK or anywhere else.....).
This year it's China, next year it might be Turkey, after that...??? Morocco? KSA? Spain? Argentina? I don't know.... but I know that I have the choice! |
Well, I did the wrong exams. I was a Cambridge examiner for two years, PET, FCE; and CAE. Made a bit extra, but not enough to live. Just did exams in Lima. mock exams twice a year and the real deal twice a year.
They didnt get me a work visa either.
Sigh, how can I become an IELTS examiner? |
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jpvanderwerf2001
Joined: 02 Oct 2003
Posts: 1117
Location: New York
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| Posted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 11:37 pm Post subject: |
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Good lord, where are you thinking of becoming an IELTS examiner, sainthood?!
I'm an IELTS examiner, and my lifestyle--let's just say, does NOT resemble what you've written  Fly the world?! Free accommodation?! Earning the equivalent of $95K AUS?!
I have to look into a transfer!  |
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naturegirl321
Joined: 04 May 2003
Posts: 9041
Location: home sweet home
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| Posted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 11:56 pm Post subject: |
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| jpvanderwerf2001 wrote: |
Good lord, where are you thinking of becoming an IELTS examiner, sainthood?!
I'm an IELTS examiner, and my lifestyle--let's just say, does NOT resemble what you've written Fly the world?! Free accommodation?! Earning the equivalent of $95K AUS?!
I have to look into a transfer! |
I agree. Maybe it's different in China? I have heard that pepoe can double their salarly. but I HIGHLY doubt that they will fly an examiner around the world. Plus, examining is tough, towards the end, your eyes tend to glaze over. In Peru, I'd be lucky if I made an extra $1000, in a year. BUT that was with two mock exams and two proper exams.
I think in CHina, some people do exams every weekend? Anyone in China?
Though sainthood has to realise, while you might be an examiner in one country, it may not transfer. I couldn't do Camrbidge here, simply because they already had people. So it's like starting over every time you move. |
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jpvanderwerf2001
Joined: 02 Oct 2003
Posts: 1117
Location: New York
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| Posted: Fri Nov 26, 2010 1:20 am Post subject: |
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Yes, there are examiners basically everywhere the exam is given. As a matter of fact, I probably travel more than most examiners, because Siberia/Russian Far East is so big, and there are very few of us in this region. The whole "international travel" thing is likely a misnomer.
Regarding pay, I do bring in some very nice supplementary cash--might come to $10-15K US/year, but I'm sure people in bigger markets make more. However, $95K AUS, I think, is a bit optimistic. If anyone makes that much examining, I would love to know!
It can be tiring and a bit tedious as well. Not that it's a tough job--there are far worse, but it's not as "sexy" as some might think. |
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sainthood
Joined: 15 Nov 2010
Posts: 175
Location: Somewhere over the rainbow
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| Posted: Fri Nov 26, 2010 2:33 am Post subject: |
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Ok.. firstly, I didn't say I make AU$95K, I said ...
| Quote: |
| I did a quick guestimate of what I would need to be paid in Australia to get my lifestyle here... take into account Aussie tax, and about $200/week in rent... and I'm really earning the equivalent of about $95,000AU |
Vastly different to actually earning AU$95k.
Secondly, sorry if I implied that you get flown around the world to do examinations. I was referring to paid return flights per contract... Though, as jpvanderwerf2001, said, in some countries they will fly you to another city to do the examinations... China is like that.
And thirdly, I'm not expecting to make money out of the examinations. Here, being an examiner can get you about 2000RMB in a weekend, but that only happens once every month or 2. The real money comes from tutoring for it once you've got certification (and yes, I know, can't tutor in the same region you examine for!!! But saying you are/were an examiner gets the students in). IN that case, yes, you are looking at a nice pile of money coming in!
So, Naturegirl, once you have done the certification, it wouldn't matter if it transfers or not, what matters is saying you've been an examiner. (BTW, certification is from Cambridge et al, not from the school or country. Of course, whether they want you to do it or not is another matter...).
Oh, one last thought.... we all know that the schools are making a stack of money (or they wouldn't be in the game, and doing well). Just because we aren't making the same sort of money doesn't mean that it's not there to be made. One of the teachers who was (and sometimes, is) here has opened a school in town for the little kids. He is getting quite wealthy, and hires numerous staff to teach... locals and foreigners! I'm sure he's not paying them even a quarter of what he's bringing in... does this seem familiar??? |
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jpvanderwerf2001
Joined: 02 Oct 2003
Posts: 1117
Location: New York
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| Posted: Fri Nov 26, 2010 3:26 am Post subject: |
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Oh, when you wrote the equivalent of $95K AUS, I thought you meant the equivalent in RMB or whatever. I gotcha.
The whole tutoring/examining thing, by the way, is a tough one. While I enjoy being an examiner, I know I could make oodles more as a tutor (actually, I DID make oodles more as a tutor). If I ever lost or left my current position, I would definitely consider going back to tutoring as well.
I am a partner in a new school venture, so I agree with your last paragraph wholeheartedly: Opportunities are out there, if has a good plan and work ethic. |
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naturegirl321
Joined: 04 May 2003
Posts: 9041
Location: home sweet home
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| Posted: Fri Nov 26, 2010 4:11 am Post subject: |
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| sainthood wrote: |
Ok.. firstly, I didn't say I make AU$95K, I said ...
| Quote: |
| I did a quick guestimate of what I would need to be paid in Australia to get my lifestyle here... take into account Aussie tax, and about $200/week in rent... and I'm really earning the equivalent of about $95,000AU |
Vastly different to actually earning AU$95k.
And thirdly, I'm not expecting to make money out of the examinations. Here, being an examiner can get you about 2000RMB in a weekend, but that only happens once every month or 2. The real money comes from tutoring for it once you've got certification (and yes, I know, can't tutor in the same region you examine for!!! But saying you are/were an examiner gets the students in). IN that case, yes, you are looking at a nice pile of money coming in!
So, Naturegirl, once you have done the certification, it wouldn't matter if it transfers or not, what matters is saying you've been an examiner. (BTW, certification is from Cambridge et al, not from the school or country. Of course, whether they want you to do it or not is another matter...). |
Right, while I agree with you, there's a difference between living well and earning well (I know that's probably not correct English, but anyways) I can live well in China, but making 700 or 800 a month won't allow me to fly myself and husband, and kids back to the US without serious saving and sacrifices.
I perfer to earn more and know that after expenses and everything, at the end of one month, I could fly home, no probs.
As for being a Cambridge examiner, hasn't really helped me. It's on my CV. And I raelise that it's not for the country, it's for Cambridge. But when I came to Korea from Peru, despite the personal recommendations, reference letters, and proof that my license was still valid, I was told that they didn't need any examiners, hence my reasoning that it is tied tot he country.
BUt, I don't teach privates anymore. ahving done that for 2 years, FT, I have no desire to do it again. Maybe group lessons., but the logicistics are tough
WHERE are you going to hold the classes?
Is it LEGAL?
HOW are you goign to get students?
Can you KEEP students?
HOW can you compete against other schools?
Will IELTS allow you to teach IELTS prep?
How are you better than the other teachers out there?
NOt trying to be difficult, like I said, I survived on privates for two years. Some prefer individual one on ones, not group lessons, even with discounts, it's hard to find a time that's good for everyone.
I just woulnd't count my chickens before they hatch. If it were that easy, everyone would be doing it. Teaching, well, basically running your own school is hard. Not to mention, some employers wouldn't look kindly upon the fact and revoke your visa. AHving tried to do something similar, and having the advantage of knowing Spanish, being a native English speaker, my own house that people could go to AND citizenship in Peru, therefore no visa issues, I ended up teaching about 30 horus a week, running all over the city, because peopel didn't want to go to my house and only making 1500 a month. For me, it's not worth it. I'd rather work for someone and get paid vacay, medical, and pension.
Anyways, if you can do it, good on you, but just realise that teaching privates isn't all that easy, let alone finding and teaching 20 students, and worst case senario, you might have legal visa related issues with that. |
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naturegirl321
Joined: 04 May 2003
Posts: 9041
Location: home sweet home
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| Posted: Fri Nov 26, 2010 4:13 am Post subject: |
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| sainthood wrote: |
Ok.. firstly, I didn't say I make AU$95K, I said ...
| Quote: |
| I did a quick guestimate of what I would need to be paid in Australia to get my lifestyle here... take into account Aussie tax, and about $200/week in rent... and I'm really earning the equivalent of about $95,000AU |
Vastly different to actually earning AU$95k.
And thirdly, I'm not expecting to make money out of the examinations. Here, being an examiner can get you about 2000RMB in a weekend, but that only happens once every month or 2. The real money comes from tutoring for it once you've got certification (and yes, I know, can't tutor in the same region you examine for!!! But saying you are/were an examiner gets the students in). IN that case, yes, you are looking at a nice pile of money coming in!
So, Naturegirl, once you have done the certification, it wouldn't matter if it transfers or not, what matters is saying you've been an examiner. (BTW, certification is from Cambridge et al, not from the school or country. Of course, whether they want you to do it or not is another matter...). |
Right, while I agree with you, there's a difference between living well and earning well (I know that's probably not correct English, but anyways) I can live well in China, but making 700 or 800 a month won't allow me to fly myself and husband, and kids back to the US without serious saving and sacrifices.
I perfer to earn more and know that after expenses and everything, at the end of one month, I could fly home, no probs.
As for being a Cambridge examiner, hasn't really helped me. It's on my CV. And I raelise that it's not for the country, it's for Cambridge. But when I came to Korea from Peru, despite the personal recommendations, reference letters, and proof that my license was still valid, I was told that they didn't need any examiners, hence my reasoning that it is tied tot he country.
BUt, I don't teach privates anymore. ahving done that for 2 years, FT, I have no desire to do it again. Maybe group lessons., but the logicistics are tough
WHERE are you going to hold the classes with enough space for 20 students?
Is it LEGAL, ie, will your school allow it?
HOW are you goign to get students?
Can you KEEP students?
HOW can you compete against other schools?
How are you better than the other teachers out there?
NOt trying to be difficult, like I said, I survived on privates for two years. Some prefer individual one on ones, not group lessons, even with discounts, it's hard to find a time that's good for everyone.
I just woulnd't count my chickens before they hatch. If it were that easy, everyone would be doing it. Teaching, well, basically running your own school is hard. Not to mention, some employers wouldn't look kindly upon the fact and revoke your visa. AHving tried to do something similar, and having the advantage of knowing Spanish, being a native English speaker, my own house that people could go to AND citizenship in Peru, therefore no visa issues, I ended up teaching about 30 horus a week, running all over the city, because peopel didn't want to go to my house and only making 1500 a month. For me, it's not worth it. I'd rather work for someone and get paid vacay, medical, and pension.
Anyways, if you can do it, good on you, but just realise that teaching privates isn't all that easy, let alone finding and teaching 20 students, and worst case senario, you might have legal visa related issues with that. |
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Justin Trullinger
Joined: 28 Jan 2005
Posts: 3110
Location: Seoul, South Korea and Myanmar for a bit
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| Posted: Fri Nov 26, 2010 5:34 am Post subject: |
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| My plan is to get the MAppLing finished (by July next year), do a CELTA (better than my dodgey TESOL 'diploma'), and then be an IELTS examiner. Fairly short, quick and painless route to a bucketload (or not) of cash, where people pay me to fly around the world, meet interesting people, have lots of great (and, occasionally, bad) food, see some of the worlds iconic landmarks, all while being paid almost tax-free with free accommodation....for only 16 real hours of work each week. Is that a McJob??? (oh, forgot the 4 months holidays, or so... mostly paid!) |
Hmmmmm.
My wife was an IELTS examiner for a few years. It was fine, but wasn't what you seem to be expecting.
For us, EFL teaching isn't a McJob. It's done pretty well- got a nice life, nice place to live, money in the bank and lots of prospects.
But becoming an IELTS examiner isn't the holy grail.
Best,
Justin
PS- She's actually recently let her examiner status lapse. It seemed to be more trouble than it was worth at this point, and there were other opportunities more deserving of her time. |
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Chris Westergaard
Joined: 14 Mar 2006
Posts: 215
Location: Prague
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| Posted: Fri Nov 26, 2010 7:27 pm Post subject: |
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I think people teach abroad because they like to meet and work with people and they like to live abroad.
What other job could I find work anywhere I wanted in a matter of weeks?
The only think I can think of is teaching, but no it's not for everyone and it can be hard to do it for a lifetime |
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Never Ceased To Be Amazed
Joined: 22 Oct 2004
Posts: 3500
Location: Shhh...don't talk to me...I'm playin' dead...
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| Posted: Fri Nov 26, 2010 9:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Chris Westergaard wrote: |
| What other job could I find work anywhere I wanted in a matter of weeks? |
Prostitution...sometimes, it's hard to tell the difference...
NCTBA |
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Hadit
Joined: 17 Sep 2009
Posts: 109
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| Posted: Sun Nov 28, 2010 4:02 pm Post subject: |
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Does anyone have any quick statistics on and is able to compare the cushiest ESL jobs? It would be nice to keep one's "eye on the prize" so to speak, given it will vary a bit to the beholder.
Naturegirl's Korean Uni job description: 20 weeks paid vacay, 15 hours a week, and $40K plus bonuses ranging from 10 to 15K.
Sheik N Bake's ME Uni position: $74K cash annually to start and 4% annual COLA. Company car, free gas, housing of course, full medical including full US and Gulf coverage. 85 days vacation. Five classes a day, go home between 11:30 am and 12:10 noon; work week between 26 and 27.5 hours; every fourth Wed. off; no harassment.
The Korean Uni is two less contact hours a day and a month more vacation, but is $40k compared to $74k. These seem to even out decently to me for work done, so that it would depend on one's lifestyle choice. |
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