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Language schools PROS
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Professor



Joined: 22 May 2009
Posts: 449
Location: Mexico City

PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2010 8:24 pm    Post subject: Language schools PROS Reply with quote

There are MANY threads pointing out the negative sides to the language schools here in Mexico and working for them, but perhaps the schools are on to something. My personal experience shows that companies want to deal with other companies for the most part; not with an individual off of the street.
A big corporation in Mexico City for example may have more TRUST in a company like Berlitz, Harmon Hall or even Interlingua than in an individual who works alone.
The language schools have more resources and references at their disposal than say a Gringo who works solo. And most of the language schools do train their teachers before sending them out to teach. It also seems very difficult to move up on your own in EFL at times and ones salary can be unstable and unsure to say the least.
Whereas in a company, a person can move up possibly and there seems to me more job security. Just thought I would point out some of the PROS to the language schools here in Mexico.
Add a more BALANCED perspective to the forums on this issue. Very Happy
Anyone agree? Care to add anything??
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Isla Guapa



Joined: 19 Apr 2010
Posts: 1520
Location: Mexico City o sea La Gran Manzana Mexicana

PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2010 9:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A very balanced post, Professor. I think that what many of us here do not like about working for language schools is the big disparity between what they pay their teachers and how much money they rake in from their students Wink
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Dragonlady



Joined: 10 May 2004
Posts: 720
Location: Chillinfernow, Canada

PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2010 10:18 pm    Post subject: Re: Language schools PROS Reply with quote

Professor wrote:
There are MANY threads pointing out the negative sides to the language schools... Just thought I would point out some of the PROS to the language schools here in Mexico. Add a more BALANCED perspective to the forums on this issue. Anyone agree? Care to add anything??

Sorry Professor, seems the balanced positive perspective to language schools lasted one post - your own. Crying or Very sad
I'm on a time out at the moment, but will put my thoughts together and post later in the hopes of dispelling the unfounded rumor of obscene profit margins enjoyed by most language schools.

Perhaps our learned posters who actually own/operate a/o manage a language school - and frequently stress that they are not in this business to get rich quick - can jump in in the mean time with some facts - percentage of gross revenues vs net revenues, and all the legitimate things that eat away the profit - and help get this thread back on track.

Regards,
DL (a supporter of most language schools)
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Isla Guapa



Joined: 19 Apr 2010
Posts: 1520
Location: Mexico City o sea La Gran Manzana Mexicana

PostPosted: Sat Nov 27, 2010 6:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have something positive to say about language schools in Mexico City. I only teach private students these days, and all but one of them come to my apartment for classes. Several of them have at some time in the past studied at language schools in the city, usually going through all the levels successfully. What they tell me is that in spite of all this instruction, they come out of the program still unable to carry on a normal conversation, which is why they've ended up with me! So I want to thank these schools for providing me with a nice supplement to my pension income Wink !
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Professor



Joined: 22 May 2009
Posts: 449
Location: Mexico City

PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2010 4:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's a site that gives school reviews. HH is featured.

http://www.teflschoolreviews.com/harmon-hall-mexico-200666.html
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Guy Courchesne



Joined: 10 Mar 2003
Posts: 9650
Location: Mexico City

PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2010 4:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Professor wrote:
Here's a site that gives school reviews. HH is featured.

http://www.teflschoolreviews.com/harmon-hall-mexico-200666.html


Bit of an old review but if you scroll down to the comments, none other than Moonraven offers up her insights into HH. She posted it last year too...the old bird is still out there.
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Isla Guapa



Joined: 19 Apr 2010
Posts: 1520
Location: Mexico City o sea La Gran Manzana Mexicana

PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2010 6:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Guy Courchesne wrote:
Professor wrote:
Here's a site that gives school reviews. HH is featured.

http://www.teflschoolreviews.com/harmon-hall-mexico-200666.html


Bit of an old review but if you scroll down to the comments, none other than Moonraven offers up her insights into HH. She posted it last year too...the old bird is still out there.


I read Moonraven's review of HH and found it a balanced report. What stood out to me after finishing it was the fact that the business plan of schools like HH is predicated on paying their teachers peanuts Rolling Eyes .
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Dragonlady



Joined: 10 May 2004
Posts: 720
Location: Chillinfernow, Canada

PostPosted: Sun Nov 28, 2010 10:17 pm    Post subject: Re: Harmon Hall Mexico - a Review?? Reply with quote

Whoa! What am I missing?

The link provided is not a review; it's a request for reviews, and the text used is the same for every single school.
Everything is blank except 'Overall Quick Ratings' which states 14 votes (received) which produced a rating of 3 out of 5 stars. But where is the link to vote?

We can scroll down to comments - we have 2 negative comments, 1 positive comment, and one professional comment (guess whose).

Right... so, 14 votes and 4 outdated comments is enough for a prudent individual to reach a conclusion about anything out of the thousands of teachers and students who have/will have graced HH facilities? Shocked

And where on this web site is this discussed?
Quote:
What stood out to me after finishing it was the fact that the business plan of schools like HH is predicated on paying their teachers peanuts

Confused,
DL

BTW, I know nothing of HH other than 1 teacher (of many) that I've worked with is very happy working (at one branch), and in a short time has worked their way up (to those of you who believe this is a good thing) to the position of co-ordinator. I do, however, prefer to base my opinions on reasonable facts, rather than hearsay and rumour.

BTW2: I'm happy to eat my words if my MAC Safari has misdirected the link http://www.teflschoolreviews.com/harmon-hall-mexico-200666.html
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Isla Guapa



Joined: 19 Apr 2010
Posts: 1520
Location: Mexico City o sea La Gran Manzana Mexicana

PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 12:19 am    Post subject: Re: Harmon Hall Mexico - a Review?? Reply with quote

Dragonlady wrote:

And where on this web site is this discussed?
Quote:
What stood out to me after finishing it was the fact that the business plan of schools like HH is predicated on paying their teachers peanuts

Confused,
DL



My comment was an extrapolation of this post:

They pay foreign teachers 50 pesos (about 3.50 USD) an hour.

and this one:

My pay was low for what I produced for the owner, but it was adequate to live on.

Perhaps I shouldn't have used the pejorative term "peanuts" to describe what two of the posters on teflschoolreviews.com wrote. "Not great salary" would have been less inflammatory, I suppose. I apologize to anyone whom I may have offended with my comments.
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Guy Courchesne



Joined: 10 Mar 2003
Posts: 9650
Location: Mexico City

PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 12:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Whoa! What am I missing?

The link provided is not a review; it's a request for reviews, and the text used is the same for every single school.
Everything is blank except 'Overall Quick Ratings' which states 14 votes (received) which produced a rating of 3 out of 5 stars. But where is the link to vote?

We can scroll down to comments - we have 2 negative comments, 1 positive comment, and one professional comment (guess whose).

Right... so, 14 votes and 4 outdated comments is enough for a prudent individual to reach a conclusion about anything out of the thousands of teachers and students who have/will have graced HH facilities?

And where on this web site is this discussed?


Take a deep breath...calm, cool thoughts. There. Wink

The site is defunct....the site owner is a combative type that focused on Asia and the US in other endeavours. TEFL Review never got very far unfortunately but it did have some epic battles against some of the more slippery organizations out there.
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Prof.Gringo



Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 2236
Location: Dang Cong San Viet Nam Quang Vinh Muon Nam!

PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 2:08 am    Post subject: Re: Harmon Hall Mexico - a Review?? Reply with quote

Isla Guapa wrote:
Dragonlady wrote:

And where on this web site is this discussed?
Quote:
What stood out to me after finishing it was the fact that the business plan of schools like HH is predicated on paying their teachers peanuts

Confused,
DL



My comment was an extrapolation of this post:

They pay foreign teachers 50 pesos (about 3.50 USD) an hour.

and this one:

My pay was low for what I produced for the owner, but it was adequate to live on.

Perhaps I shouldn't have used the pejorative term "peanuts" to describe what two of the posters on teflschoolreviews.com wrote. "Not great salary" would have been less inflammatory, I suppose. I apologize to anyone whom I may have offended with my comments.


Lingo schools are just there to turn a profit. If some students happen to learn along the way, great, if not, who cares? The school already has it's money.

I studied Spanish at UNAM and I wasn't impressed there either. I sat in on a Spanish class at International House where the teacher chatted on her cell phone during class and admitted it was her first time teaching Spanish to foreigners. I walked out and I was happy I hadn't paid over $200 USD for that one-week "intensive" course.

Students need to demand better. But when a student asks the following questions:

1. How long will it take to learn English?
2. Do I get a certificate?
3. How cheap is the class?

I know that the student has it all backwards.

BTW, Next time I decide to study Spanish, I'll find a private teacher (Native Spanish speaker of course)!
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TeresaLopez



Joined: 18 Apr 2010
Posts: 601
Location: Mexico City

PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 2:34 am    Post subject: Re: Harmon Hall Mexico - a Review?? Reply with quote

Dragonlady wrote:

In a previous post someone said (not DL) HH is predicated on paying their teachers peanuts and the DL said:

BTW, I know nothing of HH other than 1 teacher (of many) that I've worked with is very happy working (at one branch), and in a short time has worked their way up (to those of you who believe this is a good thing) to the position of co-ordinator. I do, however, prefer to base my opinions on reasonable facts, rather than hearsay and rumour. >>>>
l


The thing is, the pay is NOT peanuts by Mexican standards. It is decent pay for a teacher. In most private schools (neighborhood schools, not fresa international colegios) pay for around 50 hours a week is between 8000 and 10,000 pesos a month. I think a lot of discontent comes from people who expect to earn pay similar to what they would earn in their home country, and that just doesn�t happen - not just for teachers, but for most jobs, receptionists here start out making 4000 or 5000 pesos, secretaries might make 7000 or 8000,
etc.

I am not sure how much credibilty I would give to an anonymous website anyway, who knows who is posting, or why, whether the comments are positive or negative. I prefer the opinions of people I know, you have a better idea of how objective the comments are. Like DL�s friend, I also have a friend who has worked, and worked her way up at HH. In addition, despite what was posted here a few months ago about Interlingua withdrawing benefits and seniority from some teachers, that is only partly true, it�s not across the board, only at some branches. There are two kinds of Interlingua schools, company owned and franchises. And while there are some things that the franchise must do, contractually, such as what materials they use, how they market their school, etc, there are others that are left up to each franchise owner to decide on, for example, paying benefits. Some do, some don�t. Some of the franschise schools pay more because they don�t pay benefits, some don�t. If you leave a company school to work for a franchise, yes, you loose your benefits. But they don�t hide it from you, it�s your choise to make. The last time I worked for Interlingua I considered moving from a far away company owned school to a much nearer franchise, but after weighing the pro�s and con�s I decided that my job was more secure at a company school. Before you even start working they explain the differences and you can choose for yourself which you prefer, a bit lower pay, but more training and more job security at a company owned school, or a little more pay, and a lot more instability in a lot of ways, at a franchise. It�s also easier to move into other positions at a company school, as they have more places to move you to, and you can be moved from one branch to another, whereas with a franchise that branch is pretty much it for you. I do think there are positives to working at a language school, you don�t travel all over the city, most materials are supplied, you get ongoing training, and, in case it matters to you, lots of people really respect teachers at the well known schools. I think it�s a good job for a beginner, or someone who�s a little older and doesn�t have the energy to travel all over anymore.


Last edited by TeresaLopez on Mon Nov 29, 2010 4:23 am; edited 1 time in total
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Prof.Gringo



Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 2236
Location: Dang Cong San Viet Nam Quang Vinh Muon Nam!

PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 2:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't expect to make $4-6,000 USD per month in Mexico (which I can earn in the US) but I do expect to get things like cost of living raises, bonuses and the ability to have a career path.

I was making $9,000 pesos per month almost 6 long years ago, and that was cash in hand, at my first job as a teacher.

Also, comparing an English teacher and a receptionist is like comparing apples to oranges. And a secretary makes as much as a teacher, that is very telling.

As other posters have said there are careers that pay well above those salaries quoted above. I know people that make $35-40,000 pesos per month.

Again, I see no point in "professional development" and spending tons of my hard earned pesos to get some more cert's so I can make the same wages as 5 years ago.

BTW TeleTech is hiring CSR's full-time in Mexico City. You don't need Spanish. No expensive TEFL cert. Flexible hours. Benefits. They get you a FM-3. And they even have a career path. Starting pay is 40 something pesos per hour. About the same as the language schools.
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Professor



Joined: 22 May 2009
Posts: 449
Location: Mexico City

PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 3:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Prof.Gringo wrote:

Again, I see no point in "professional development" and spending tons of my hard earned pesos to get some more cert's so I can make the same wages as 5 years ago.


I agree. Hopefully with some professional development and hard work, we'll start to make more. Try a language school Prof. Gringo. Stay with it, work hard and build an engaging personality and the sky will be the limit for you. Wink
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Professor



Joined: 22 May 2009
Posts: 449
Location: Mexico City

PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 3:09 am    Post subject: Re: Harmon Hall Mexico - a Review?? Reply with quote

TeresaLopez wrote:

I think it�s a good job for a beginner, or someone who�s a little older and doesn�t have the energy to travel all over anymore.


That would be me. Crying or Very sad Laughing
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