Job Discussion Forums

[nik_knack0828]

I'll try to keep this short (unlike most of my posts).

I was told last week that I'll have to test my 65 Grade 3 (final year college students) on Wednesday morning. I will have 4 hours.

My problem is that I've only met about 15 of them.
This is the last semester of their last year, so they don't have to come to class. My first day (ever) I was expecting 65, had 11 (it was a VERY stressful class). Since that time I've had between 4 and 9. Usually closer to 4.

Since this was such a messed up class, I wasn't really expecting to have to test them, but, yup, it's required for them to get their diplomas (or whatever they get).
I've taught their class about 8 times. It's oral english, so I try to get them talking. Of the 15 (or so) I've seen, most have been fairly competent. Not fluent, but okay. I've had a couple that TOTALLY lack basic skills. I try to talk to them and they will just ignore me and blow air out their nose (weird) or just stare at me. Both of these students have only attended one class.
"Can you understand me?" Repeated (by me) 6 times.... No reply.
Slower "Can you understand what I'm saying?".... Repeated.... Nothing...
Ugh! They have, apparently, had more then 10 years of English education.
I don't want to fail anyone. If they're lacking in skills, it might have been caused by their previous teacher or just that they are shy.
Obviously, if they say nothing, I will have to fail them, but that's my last option.

Well, anyways, my reason for writing is to ask for advice.
I'm thinking I'll have about 4 minutes per student. During that time I'll give them a list of basic topics.

Tell me about your family/hometown
What would you do if you won a million dollars?
Tell me about a favourite event from your childhood
etc.

And either have them decide one or two they would like to answer or make them randomly choose the questions (no looking).

Maybe do this at the beginning, then give them a chance to think over their answers while waiting.

Then grade them based on
lower than 50% is totally incompetent (or no answer).

100% He/she doesn't have to check words and has no mistakes or long pauses.
And the rest between.

Another I idea I had (well, stole from the testing forum) is to have 2 of them discuss something. Maybe my questions above or some more controversal ideas.

I'm a little lost on this.
Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks!

Oh, and, Roger, please don't post about how I'm using the wrong forum (like you always do when I ask for teaching advice on the "General Discussion" forum). I know it belongs on the "Testing Forum" and I would have posted it there, but no one would read it in time.
I only have 36 hours till test time.
Thanks anyways.


Hmmm... Not so short. Sorry, I'm long winded?

[khmerhit]

[arioch36]

Let them prepare their speeches in advance!!! No more then two minutes!!!


I believe in strong standards. Right now I am teaching 6 freshman classes, and I am having the school expel two students for never coming to classes (don't know if it will happen, but the school did call their parents.

In your case, I would let it ride. Give all of them a passing grade. In CHina, the fourth (third) year, students are not expected to be in class, they are actively encouraged to find a job. The students that come might be the ones who want to go to graduate school, or maybe are to lazy to look for work.

In fact, in schools like this (3 year) the students are required to have done some kind of training with a company. I've been gone from America too long, what do we call it, not apprenticship, but... internship, yes, these students have to do an internship, get it stamped, etc.


Let this one go. Give them all at least a 60. four minutes is way too long. You only need a minute to know what grade to give them. Use two, if you feel a need to. A two minute speech will take at least three minutes.

Don't don't grade them all at the same time. Tell someone from the class (that speaks English) to divide them selves into four groups (or more) of 20, 15, 15, 15 and stagger them. (Some of the 20 will come later anyways)

Pas everyone, but don't give 90s (90's) to anyone but the best. Your topics are fine. Here is one I use...tell me something important that happened to you.

Oh, don't devise any fancy grading scheme. Just make sure you have the right student number, listen to them, and put down the grade that sounds right.


Really, I am all for strong academic standards, but this is just a paperwork issue. Just save the good marks for the handful of good students.

Two minute at the most.

Oh, to me the two people talking more aggravation then it is worth in a situation like this. You will end up spending all your time explaining things.

DEFINITELY ... let them prepare the speech a head of time (redundant, yes) Their ENglish isn't good enough for ad lib speeches or questions. Let them end their college career with a little face, and save your self the pain of listening to silence. Give them the topics tomorrow. Let them prepare. They can not hide bad english in a prepared speech.

[Afra]

1) 1 minute for personal information - as unprompted as possible.

2) 2/3 minutes to complete a task - i.e. explain why they would do something, what present they would choose for their sister.

3) 2/3 minutes to give an opinion on a topic you choose for them, make it simple.
Grade them 1-5, 3 is pass.

Look for grammar, pronunciation, discourse management. If you do this in pairs, Part 2 is a joint task and you can then grade interactive communication.

Just passing them won't help down the line.

Good luck!

[nolefan]

Hey Nikki,

I have the same issue with one of my classes! I almost lost it one day when I walked in and saw only 7 out of my 24 kids...I tried threatening to call their parents, to fail them, etc...nothing helps! Now, I just let them be!
The handful that shows up tries hard to learn and I am happy to deal with just a small amount of kids!

Anyways, this is what I did for their exams:

4 mn conversation with a classmate on the topic of their choice! they have one week to prepare for it.
after the conversation, the rest of the class should ask them questions about teh topic..if they don't ask any, I do!

it seems to work! good luck and e-mail me if you need help!

[Stephen Jones]

Incompetent or no answer should be zero, not lower than 50%.

[guest of Japan]

Test them on only the things you covered in class. Create a rubric to assess their skills.

[FGT]

Assess them in pairs (they choose their partner).
Start with very basic stuff : What's your name? Where are you from? Can you spell your surname/hometown?
Give them a task where one has to ask the other questions and vice versa. This a) gives you a chance to sit back and listen while assessing and b) allows for an opportunity for them to interact.
Give each of them a descriptive task and then try to develop a discussion from that.
Do not be afraid of failing those that can't/won't produce language. If the majority haven't turned up for class all year this may mean that they know it all and consider the class beneath them; or they are plonkers! If they produce a very limited amount of language, they should get an accordingly limited number of marks. Don't award the plonkers any marks at all!!!

[ls650]

Why are you reluctant to fail the bad students? If you pass them up then you're just rewarding them for being lazy - and giving the next teacher another headache!

[khmerhit]

Because he is in Asia. Everyone gets to pass in Asia. Not so?

[ls650]

Certainly not at my school! If students don't deserve a pass, we fail them.

[Gordon]

All my students need to do to pass is show up for 2/3 of their classes. their marks on tests are almost irrelevant. This is at a university. If they are 4th year students, I get the Japanese profs leaning on me to pass them if they can't even come to class.

[arioch36]

I have no problem failing students.

But this is China. In the fourth year, especially the spring semester, they are no longer students. They are not expected to go to class. They are not required to go to class. Especially at the three year schools, It is required that they do on the job training, so it is impossible for many of them to go to class. Why punish the students because they are not going to class when they are not supposed to be there?

Regardless of what mark they get in the class, they will pass and graduate. Normally if you fail a student, they must retake the final test, get a 2nd chance. Then the teacher is supposed to spend extra time with the student and help the student take the test the third time. If a student misses more then five clases, the teacher can deny them the right to take the final test. But not the final year whne they are supposed to be looking for work and doing job training. So why are people insisting that the students who don't go to this class are the lazy ones? Quite possibly the opposite.

[Roger]

Methinks you have been a bit slack in enforcing classroom discipline. How come they can choose to attend class or not, and then expect to "pass" any exam?
I don't understand why we always have to put up with "this is China"; I don't put up with it - my students must know the truth about their English, and I am more competent than their Chinese English teachers. Therefore I tell them where their English hurts my sensibilities - usually it's grammar, pronunciation and a lot else, not shyness or "lack of opportunities to use English"...
After ten years of studying English, they should be way past "my name is..." games; they should address modern-day social, political issues, have an opinion and demonstrate the ability to listen to a standpoint not previously heard.
You should have taken your bearings a long time before, discussing with your superiors what they were expecting from you.

Here at a middle school, 18-year olds discuss a wide range of topics in class - women's rights, going abroad, how to protect the environment, how to help the destitute, etc., - I won't need to listen to their stupid questions again "you want me to introduce myself? You mean my English name or my Chinese name...?")
And, those who cannot deliver fail. I am not failing them - they are failing.

[arioch36]

I don't put up with any student skipping class. Ask th two students being kicked out of school. But in the Spring Semester in the Chinese education system it is considered proper and correct for the senior student not to be in class, but working. So we should punish a student for this? They are expected not to be in classing, but looking for a job. This is the system China has decided on, and I signed a contract to respect their authority. These senior students not being in class has nothing in common with classroom discipline, or any such matter.

Students at the three year school must NOT be in class. They have to, they must, the school system insists they do months of on the job training, so they can not be in class. If you don't want to respect this, then don't sign a contract that says I will teach under the direction of the Chinese Leaders.

Again, Chinese students are not expected by the school to attend classes their spring senior year. They are expected to be out looking for jobs, sometimes in far away cities, and they are required to be doing on the job training, with or without pay. The company then stamps a letter to certify they have been doing training, then they must do another period of training.

Why punish the student for doing what they are supposed to be doing. Maybe it is different from the western way, but then I am in China, not the US