Job Discussion Forums

[siberiantiger]

Hi all. I've never been to China and am trying to decide between university offers so I'm hoping to get some opinions.

Offer 1: University in Mianyang. 6500 RMB for 16 hours/week, apartment with free utilities up to 300 RMB, 2200 RMB travel allowance, airfare up to 8000 RMB, telephone allowance, on-campus travel allowance. First two months are probation period. Some variety in the courses I'd teach.

Offer 2: University in Shenyang. 5500 RMB for 20 hours/week, apartment with free utilities, 2200 RMB travel allowance, reimbursed roundtrip airfare, free lunches during the week.

Offer 3: University in Dalian. 5000 RMB for 16 hours/week, apartment with free utilities, 2200 RMB travel allowance, airfare up to 8000 RMB.

Offer 4: University in Taiyuan. 8000 RMB for 24 hours/week, apartment, 2200 travel allowance, airfare up to 7000 RMB, one month paid holiday in the summer.

Offer 5: University in Taiyuan. 5000 RMB for 20 hours/week, apartment with free utilities, 2000 RMB travel allowance, reimbursed roundtrip airfare. First month is probation period. Some variety in the classes I'd teach. Contract can be cancelled.

They're all 1 year contracts.

Here's what I'm looking for: I prefer the Canadian/American northeastern climate so southeastern China is out of the question for me because it's just too hot. Nightlife is not important to me but culture and history are so I wouldn't do well in cities with heavy industry but few attractions. I'd like to be in a large city but I don't mind living in a smaller city if it's reasonably close to a larger one. I speak fluent Russian and French and would love to learn Mandarin while I'm there. I'd like to be able to visit Beijing and Shanghai but have little interest in living in either of those cities.

I'm not really sure how the salaries compare. I just spent seven years finishing MA and PhD degrees so I'm used to the impoverished graduate student lifestyle - I rarely eat out, I'm not a shopaholic, I stay in hostels when I travel, etc. - but I'd like to be able to save some money.

I genuinely enjoy teaching university classes and like having the freedom to teach however I like. I feel restricted and less creative if I have to follow someone else's syllabus.

Any advice about the offers or which cities might be a good fit for me would be really appreciated!

Siberian

[keeperofpythons]

I can tell you a good bit about Taiyuan. When you say "I wouldn't do well in cities with heavy industry but few attractions", this is Taiyuan to a T. Personally, this city consistently gets on my nerves, but the cost of living is low and there trains to just about anywhere in China as well as fast trains to BJ and Shanghai. There is consistent smog during the winter because of coal. I recently got over a 4 week "cold" (before the age of 18, I was "sick" maybe 3 or 4 times) which I personally attribute to the said smog. I bought one of those ninja masks and after 2 days I'm almost all better. When I washed the thing by hand, there was nothing but dark liquid coming out of it.

All of that aside, I did sign for a second year. I have a love-hate relationship with this city, but I absolutely love my job at the University that I teach at here. There are a lot of areas in this part of China that fit your climate requirements, however it's going to be HOT in the summer almost regardless of where you are. Keep that in mind.

As far as salaries go, that 8k for 24 hours/week in Taiyuan is not bad. My University salary is not that, but 8k a month is about what I bring home when I figure in an extra 10 hours per week part time private teaching and occasional mill teaching. I certainly do not live the impoverished grad student life, but I don't live like Hugh Hefner either. I save a good bit to do what I please with, and I'm all but certain that you would too.

After my 2 years here are up, I'd like to move on to bigger and better Universities, cities and salaries. All in all, you could do a hell of a lot worse (and of course at least a little better) than Taiyuan. I reiterate, though, that if "I wouldn't do well in cities with heavy industry but few attractions" is a HUGE dealbreaker for you, then Taiyuan is certainly out. It is a "smaller city... reasonably close to a larger one". Learning Mandarin is "easy" here if you're a DIY type, but there aren't any schools that teach to foreigners outside of two major universities that require you to be a 20 hour per week intensive study student. Needless to say, that might conflict with your teaching schedule at your University unless you happen to teach at one of those two, in which case they would gladly accommodate. I don't think you will be teaching at at least one of those because I know they pay just under 4k/month for 20 hours per week.

If you have any other specific questions about Taiyuan, I'd happily answer.

[The Great Wall of Whiner]

I live right smack-dab in the middle of Shenyang and Dalian so here's my take:

Climate: Shenyang will be more like Calgary (warm summers, cold winters) Dalian will be more like a chilly Vancouver in the winter. Hot in the summer, but the sea breeze and air is nicer than say Shenyang.

Cost: If find Dalian to be a bit more expensive than Shenyang, but nicer. I find Dalian actually cheaper when you consider it has rapid transit.

Language: If you want to learn Chinese, I'd say Shenyang over Dalian simply because you will find less people who can speak English in Shenyang. You will find a lot of Russians in Dalian so.. something to consider also.

With a PhD I think you're selling yourself short on the wages, but that's just my two-cents.

[therock]

[siberiantiger]

keeperofpythons: Thanks for all of the details about Taiyuan! You gave me a really good idea of what it's like there, which makes it easy for me to decide against that city. I wouldn't mind visiting but probably wouldn't enjoy living there at all.

The Great Wall of Whiner: Thanks for the comparison between Shenyang and Dalian. I've never been to China so being able to get an idea of what the climate is really like in each city (as opposed to reading averages on, say, Wikipedia) is really helpful. I thought 5000 was standard for university contracts so I'm not really sure how I'm selling myself short. Should I try negotiating for a higher salary or be looking elsewhere? Is there some place in particular I should be looking? I did try emailing a few universities in Harbin (a city I think I'd really like to live in) but didn't receive a reply from any of them so I moved onto the job postings I thought I had a chance at getting. I just don't want to end up with no offers.

therock: I'm not really sure how I'm selling myself short. I just finished my PhD (my transcript states all requirements have been completed but I haven't convocated yet so I don't have the actual degree parchment in hand) but it's not in English or Education, my university teaching experience is in a humanities subject, not English or ESL, I don't have a CELTA/TESL/TEFL, and I've never lived or taught overseas before.

This is my first time applying to Chinese universities. If there's a trick to finding the really good positions, I don't know what it is. I read the requirements listed in the job postings and applied to the ones I thought might work for me. I thought having graduate degrees would help since I'm lacking in other areas. The tenure-track job prospects in Canada for a humanities PhD (especially in my subject area, where the job market is thoroughly saturated) are bleak at best, especially without a postdoc or two. And after seven years in graduate school, I'd enjoy spending a year teaching in China and experiencing a different culture before I start a postdoc or juggling multiple sessional instructor positions at universities here.

I'm genuinely considering the offers because they're the only ones I've received. I just thought I could get some insight about them from people on this forum who have experience working at Chinese universities. I don't think that makes me a troll.

[The Edge]

[cormac]

[LanGuTou]

A point that you may want to consider:

With an education and language skills background that you possess, you could easily set yourself up for a lucrative future in the Asia Pacific region. If you go to a city like Dalian, with careful research you will find many companies that can offer part time work to supplement the university teaching. There are several JV or MNC that would welcome multilingual fluency. If you can add Mandarin and/or Cantonese to that list, so much the better.

[The Great Wall of Whiner]

I'll just say that there are kids in their early 20's with not even a BA making 6000 a month teaching in local colleges in smaller cities around China.

In the city I'm in, a woman in her 50's with a simple TESOL certificate is teaching at the local technical college and she earns 6000 a month.

I'm sure you can do better. Good luck.

[El Chupacabra]

I'd take Offer #1. Less time per week will give you more time to develop your own syllabi and ease into the Chinese education system. Two months probation will give you the chance to get your foot into the China gate. If you don't like the location, you can immediately shop for a job for the following semester. With your doctorate and foot-in-China you should be able to jump somewhere.

Regardless, never sign up for more than 20 hours at a university. 12-16 hours is the norm.

With your interest in Russian, you may want to check out Harbin. Meanwhile, Mianyang would give you an atypical exposure to Sichuan life and minority peopls. The Eastern cities won't give you this.

Congrats on graduating, and welcome to the Mediocre Kingdom!

[sainthood]

What wasn't specifically mentioned was - you also take less hours so that you can earn a better salary doing private tuitions and the like. If you do 16-20 hours per week for the uni, you can then supplement with another 5-10 hours, and double your pay. (will depend on your specific qualifications with your PhD).

I agree with what the others have said - you are selling yourself short at 5000. I'm on that after 1 year experience, BA and dodgey TESOL course (in a small, backward-ish city's 3rd tier "univeristy").

To sound cynical, you aren't going to be here to teach, you'll be here as a walking advertisment... "Look, we have foreign PhD teachers - we're great - come to us!!!" So, your actual major won't really matter a lot - especially as you are more interested in smaller cities (the bigger one's will take more interest, though).

Good luck to you!

One thing I will say, transport by train, especially up north, is good. You will be able to get around and see the major cities fairly easily. (Haerbin's Ice Festival is way cool!!!!! And WAAAAYYYYY cold! :p)

[El Chupacabra]

[siberiantiger]

Thanks for all the suggestions, everyone! I took the advice and am negotiating for a higher salary.

[frenchfrydoggy]

I don't really know why people ask such questions. Everyone is a different person with different likes and dislikes.

Only YOU know what kind of environment and conditions you are willing to put up with.

Weather, location, geography, people, job, etc. etc. is all up to you, nobody can tell you what to do.

[El Chupacabra]