Job Discussion Forums

[Xanthos]

middlekingdomlife.com says:

"SAFEA contracts come in paired numbered sets. On the upper right-hand corner you will notice a unique red identification number (usually seven digits). One version of the paired set starts in English and the other in Chinese. You will sign two official SAFEA contracts with the same identification number. One is for the school and one is for your records (typically you will receive the version that starts in English).
[...]
If you are asked to sign a contract that is not authentic (does not have a red number on the right upper corner and is not on premium bond paper bound into a booklet) then you are not signing a legal contract."

Now, the question is; is it completely necessary to have these SAFEA-printed contracts?

Of course as the above site goes on to say: "mainland China is not so much a land of laws as it is a country that runs on the strength of interpersonal relationships". With this in mind, does a school-printed contract effectively have the same 'legality' as a Safea-printed contract?

Should, and can, teachers always push for the SAFEA contracts or else risk being swindled badly?

[Teatime of Soul]

SAFEA contracts are kept tightly controlled by the government. The government will only sell a few contracts at a time, as needed, to SAFEA licensed schools in order to keep the supply of authentic contracts limited to genuinely licensed schools.

The contracts are something like sixty RMB per pair, so cost would not be the issue unless dealing with a world class skinflint.

So the question I'd want to ask the school is this, "If you are in fact licensed to hire foreigners, why aren't you using genuine SAFEA contracts?"

Definitely fishy in my book.

I'd check the SAFEA database online to see if they are in fact licensed.

That is, of course, presuming you are dealing with a company presenting itself as licensed to hire foreigners. If not, and they are just another fly-by-night outfit hiring on tourist or business visas, then it doesn't matter because you're working illegally anyway.

Cheers.

[Xanthos]

Thanks for that, Teatime.

Any chance you could post a link to that online SAFEA database?

[Teatime of Soul]

Here you are,

http://www.safea.gov.cn/

From the home page you follow the links to show SAFEA licensed schools (they are listed by geographic region). Sorry, no English listings I know of.

Sometimes there is a lag between the time a school is initially licensed and when they are added to the database. If the school is newly licensed, they may not show up.

[johntpartee]

You're operating under the delusion that foreigners have some rights in this country. SAFEA is an advertisement to make us think we have some rights in this country. We don't. If the school can get you a Z visa, resident permit, FEC, they're as good as any, better'n some.

[Teatime of Soul]

[igorG]

It's also my observation that the SAFEA is an "advertisement". This organization is a separate institution from the government and PSBs in varieties of locations on mainland seem to overlook the existance/importance of this organization. Moreover, few pay attention to the discrepancies in between the actual employer contractual agreement vs the SAFEA one. Most importantly, this organization offers little protection in a case one choses to confront the local employers' issues. These are the hard facts.

[igorG]

It's also my observation that the SAFEA is an "advertisement". This organization is a separate institution from the government and PSBs in varieties of locations on mainland seem to overlook the existance/importance of this organization. Moreover, few pay attention to the discrepancies in between the actual employer contractual agreement vs the SAFEA one. Most importantly, this organization offers little protection in a case one choses to confront the local employers' issues. These are the hard facts.

[Teatime of Soul]

It is my observation that SAFEA administrates the primary mechanism for being legally hired as a Foreign Expert and thus live and work legally in China.

SAFEA is not

[johntpartee]

[Teatime of Soul]

I would agree with you. And I think that situation is going to be glaringly evident quite soon.

In our area, SAFEA has just now (yesterday I'm told) quit offering SAFEA contracts. As far as they are concerned, both parties should agree to whatever provisions that are within the contract for dispute resolution.

This really is only a cosmetic change, as SAFEA has never really been at point in this role anyway.

So now, FTs can no longer trust that a school is legit by depending upon the presence of a SAFEA contract as an indicator the school is legit. At least within our area. It remains to be seen if this will be China wide.

[clownshow]

We are being issued z visas through the partner institution and will receive a resident permit once we arrive. I understand this is through the department of labor. The only agreement I have is the one with my parent university and have never heard of SAFEA or any contract issued through their office.

[igorG]

That proves my point that the SAFEA is not as necessary as some claim and that the organizaiton is overlooked at PSBs routinely. Understandably, only employers that are registered with the SAFEA organization may offer the original contracts of this organizaiton, however, claiming that this institution is so necessary for FTs work or work permits on mainland is just so misleading.

[Teatime of Soul]

SAFEA's de facto role is similar to the of the State Department in The USA.

They regulate the hire of foreigners and administrate the visa process.

And the US State Department is a "recruiting Agency" in the same way SAFEA is a recruiting agency, which is, plainly, not at all.

There are those in the USA who arrived from another country, (primarily Mexico) and are working without a visa, just as there are those in China doing likewise.

So yes, there is more than one way to work in another country. Working legally is another matter.

What this thread been focused on, is those employers who purport to be able to legally hire foreigners and yet, are not in fact legally able to do so. Thus they force workers into working outside of the aegis of legal hire.

The issue isn't what SAFEA is or is not, but whether people are being hoodwinked into working illegally.

You continue to attack SAFEA for not serving a role we all know it has never served. While a convenient straw man, or distraction, this does not address the issue at hand, illegal versus legal employment and how newcomers can discern the difference.

What advice can you offer newcomers in ensuring they are not working illegally in China?

[clownshow]

Teatime of Soul, I thought this thread has been been focused on the question of the OP.

Which is: as Xanthos posted