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Isla Guapa
Joined: 19 Apr 2010
Posts: 1520
Location: Mexico City o sea La Gran Manzana Mexicana
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 Posted: Thu Dec 23, 2010 5:09 am Post subject: |
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| Very good point, Greg. I was thinking the same thing while reading Prof. Gringo's comment comparing Mexico and India. And not all Indians speak English that well - it depends a lot on social class and where in India people are from. When I taught English to immigrants at a community college in the US, I remember students from southern India whose native language was Malayalam, Their command of English was weak, which is why they ended up in ESL classes in the first place. |
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Prof.Gringo
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 2236
Location: Dang Cong San Viet Nam Quang Vinh Muon Nam!
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| Posted: Thu Dec 23, 2010 2:46 pm Post subject: |
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| gregd75 wrote: |
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| And that is why India is going to destroy Mexico (In an economic sense). Mexicans should have been studying English in-depth since NAFTA took effect in 1994. But instead, Mexico struggles today to even provide the most basic English education at the secondary school level. |
Of course it could also be because India was occupied by the British who imposed English upon them, very much in the same way as Spanish was imposed upon natives here.
English was then used by Indians to communicate among themselvs when they didn't know different dialects. They have been using English for decades if not hundreds of years in the same way that mexicans have used Spanish.
I think its completely unreasonable to compare Indias use of English to Mexicos use of Spanish.
If your students aren't learning then look within yourself. It's a failing of the teacher, not the student |
India today is a global powerhouse. They graduate engineers and scientists left and right. Their companies invent and contribute to the global economy.
Most educated Indians (college grads) are fluent in English. Compare that with Mexico, I doubt that the majority of Mexicans that graduate university here are really fluent in English.
If English is the universal language of Indian, wouldn't all Indians speak it? Like almost (but not quite) all Mexicans speak Spanish as their first language?
Although India was a step-ahead with the British influence, they still realized the importance of English education.
SEP on the other hand only mandates three years of the most basic English often taught by teachers without the ability to even hold a basic English conversation. Maybe if Mexico's education system was revamped and a much greater emphasis was placed on learning foreign languages, starting with English, we would see a marked improvement in the EFL field here.
The onus to learn a language is on the student. Always has been and always will be. If a Ss has been studying English for years and years at one school after another, with many different teachers, there must be something there besides the dedicated and hard working EFL pro's that often make a joke of a wage, for example, $4 or $5,000 pesos per month  |
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Phil_K
Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2041
Location: A World of my Own
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| Posted: Thu Dec 23, 2010 4:01 pm Post subject: |
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| What has all this got to do with my original post? |
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mejms
Joined: 04 Jan 2010
Posts: 390
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| Posted: Thu Dec 23, 2010 9:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Phil_K wrote: |
| What has all this got to do with my original post? |
Nothing. I swear that if I'm not going insane, I've seen every single thread- whatever the topic- boiled down to the same gripes, often true and always useless. Improve your situation, die trying, or get out of town. No one gives handouts and your life isn't going to get better by continuing to affirm your reality. A poor man will always be poor if he never talks about anything else than the fact he's poor and there's no way not to be poor!
Constructive posts would be.... sharing ideas.
God help us. |
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Phil_K
Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2041
Location: A World of my Own
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| Posted: Thu Dec 23, 2010 9:31 pm Post subject: |
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I assume you mean "you" in the general (plural) sense! I hope so!  Maybe your last post misread somewhat, as you were answering my question! |
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the peanut gallery
Joined: 26 May 2006
Posts: 264
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| Posted: Thu Dec 23, 2010 9:45 pm Post subject: |
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".......If your students aren't learning then look within yourself. It's a failing of the teacher, not the student....."
My lord, is there no room for a grey area at all? What a utopia! |
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mejms
Joined: 04 Jan 2010
Posts: 390
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| Posted: Thu Dec 23, 2010 9:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Phil_K wrote: |
| I assume you mean "you" in the general (plural) sense! I hope so! Maybe your last post misread somewhat, as you were answering my question! |
I meant "you" in the general sense. |
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Professor
Joined: 22 May 2009
Posts: 449
Location: Mexico City
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| Posted: Thu Dec 23, 2010 10:43 pm Post subject: |
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| mejms wrote: |
Improve your situation, die trying, or get out of town.
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I'm not going anywhere mejms. My posts bother you? Stop reading them. They are directed at the newbies. I don't want them being taken advantage of by the liberal mentality that is only one sided. Anyway, it's interesting how you and others on this forum keep telling me to improve my situation or leave.
What situation are you talking about mejms????? I have DOLLARS and access to money so I'm NOT HURTING financially. I guess that's your way of trying to take the focus off of what I'm trying to say to the newbies about teaching EFL in Mexico. |
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Professor
Joined: 22 May 2009
Posts: 449
Location: Mexico City
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| Posted: Thu Dec 23, 2010 10:46 pm Post subject: |
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| the peanut gallery wrote: |
".......If your students aren't learning then look within yourself. It's a failing of the teacher, not the student....."
My lord, is there no room for a grey area at all? What a utopia! |
No there isn't peanut. There are some on the Mexico forum who only want THEIR side to be heard while ATTACKING ANY ideas that's different or that may actually HELP the newbies before coming to Mexico to teach EFL. Just look at how I'm attacked.
I'm called a troll and a guy who is in a bad economic situation. Neither is true. I'm just trying to help the newbies who are thinking of coming to beautiful Mexico City to not be taken advantage of by those who tell only HALF TRUTHS here. |
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geaaronson
Joined: 19 Apr 2005
Posts: 948
Location: Mexico City
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| Posted: Thu Dec 23, 2010 11:05 pm Post subject: |
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| And that is why India is going to destroy Mexico (In an economic sense). Mexicans should have been studying English in-depth since NAFTA took effect in 1994. But instead, Mexico struggles today to even provide the most basic English education at the secondary school level. Truly sad. |
Many of the east Indians in the US and GB are L1 English. Mexico was never an American colony so there was no necessity, whereas India was British for over 2 centuries, (or at least some parts of India in the 19th).
Other than that, there is not much confidence among students to speak English. I believe that to be the biggest stickling point, not laziness. |
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gregd75
Joined: 14 Mar 2007
Posts: 360
Location: Tlaquepaque, Jalisco
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| Posted: Thu Dec 23, 2010 11:43 pm Post subject: |
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Nothing. I swear that if I'm not going insane, I've seen every single thread- whatever the topic- boiled down to the same gripes, often true and always useless. Improve your situation, die trying, or get out of town. No one gives handouts and your life isn't going to get better by continuing to affirm your reality. A poor man will always be poor if he never talks about anything else than the fact he's poor and there's no way not to be poor!
Constructive posts would be.... sharing ideas. |
Totally agree!! Couldn't have said it better!!
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".......If your students aren't learning then look within yourself. It's a failing of the teacher, not the student....."
My lord, is there no room for a grey area at all? What a utopia! |
My point of view is that IF you aim for 100% maybe you'll get 90%. IF you aim for just 90% then you'll never get there.
I, along with many posters here in Daves (I assume) WANT students to succeed. Its oh so easy to blame the students, the books, the system when we have failed. Thats the point I DESPERATELY try to make.
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| There are some on the Mexico forum who only want THEIR side to be heard while ATTACKING ANY ideas that's different or that may actually HELP the newbies before coming to Mexico to teach EFL. |
The curious thing is that I never see any IDEAS. I only ever see complaints about low pay, poor working conditions and general unhappiness about the situation here in Mexico (all of which I DISAGREE with)
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| I have DOLLARS and access to money so I'm NOT HURTING financially |
I think we are all pleased that you have money. We're probably all pleased that you're not hurting.
I just wish you were HAPPY because it seems to me that you are not. |
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Professor
Joined: 22 May 2009
Posts: 449
Location: Mexico City
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| Posted: Fri Dec 24, 2010 12:06 am Post subject: |
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| gregd75 wrote: |
I only ever see complaints about low pay, poor working conditions and general unhappiness about the situation here in Mexico (all of which I DISAGREE with) |
Wrong again Greg. I am happy. And you disagree with the LOW PAY and POOR WORKING CONDITIONS?? Pay IS low in Mexico Greg and a lot of the times the working conditions are POOR to say the least.
Don't lose any sleep at night worrying about my happiness Greg, I am happy. And don't worry about not having new teachers for your school. I know most who want to come to Mexico will, no matter what one says.
Happy Holidays.  |
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gregd75
Joined: 14 Mar 2007
Posts: 360
Location: Tlaquepaque, Jalisco
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| Posted: Fri Dec 24, 2010 12:14 am Post subject: |
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I don't worry about people being unhappy. I am just commenting that so much negativity cannot be healthy for someone.
Low pay is relative. This is the point that has been made time and time again. For sure pay is low here compared to the USA, the UK and other western countries, but then again the cost of living is lower here too. And better!
I was in Mexico City last wekend and I went to the park with the arts, the lovely art deco museum, visited the cathederal and saw the pistas de hielo. Amazing.
Free concerts, I used the metro for $3 and I ate in the tianguis. I saw the freshest fruit and vegetables that I have seen in ages and all this was either cheap or free.
You are right about low wages, but I have never, ever seen you post about the cost of living. Your posts are NOT BALANCED - unless you are living in Mexico but having a US lifestyle- you can live, and live very well here in Mexico on the money that is paid in many schools.
Of course you wouldn't be able to shop at Sears, Best Buy, Applebees etc but newbies can and DO have the ability to have a great time here.
Now, that is balanced. |
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TeresaLopez
Joined: 18 Apr 2010
Posts: 601
Location: Mexico City
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| Posted: Fri Dec 24, 2010 1:09 am Post subject: |
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| gregd75 wrote: |
Free concerts, I used the metro for $3 and I ate in the tianguis. I saw the freshest fruit and vegetables that I have seen in ages and all this was either cheap or free.
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Just to add some perspective on the cost of living, I am currently in Milwaukee, WI, and the food comparisions, especially, are making me wonder if I can go a few days without eating! I just went to the store to make a dish I often make in Mexico - steaks in Chile Pasilla sauce with nopales and potatoes - usually costs me around $50 pesos to make enough for 4 people in Mexico. Here the ingredients cost closer to $20! 100 grams of Pasillas cost $3US! And the tomatos looked like crap, though they tasted OK. One avocado for a salad cost $1.50US, but I won�t be able to eat it for a few days, it�s hard as a rock. I have use of a car here, but public transportation costs $2.25US plus if you need a transfer it costs another 25 cents. There is basically nothing that is free here in terms of culture. It�s cold for a good part of the year, so heating bills are quite high. Rent for an apartment in an OK neighborhood is $500 to $600US, for one bedroom. In a suburb, for a two bedroom apartment you are looking at more like $750, plus utilities. Just to name a few things that are far cheaper in Mexico. Yes, wages are lower, but so is the cost of living is also far, far lower. |
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mejms
Joined: 04 Jan 2010
Posts: 390
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| Posted: Fri Dec 24, 2010 1:14 am Post subject: |
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| mejms wrote: |
| I meant "you" in the general sense. |
This is so silly. Prof, don't take everything so personal. If you read what I said, I mentioned that all of your gripes are based in reality. Regarding money, you could be Carlos Slim's son for all I know. I do know, however, that you have mentioned that you've been hard up for work.
You're free to post your insights into Mexico, of course. I'm not running this show. In fact you're free to post them again and again and again. I think the newbies, as you say, will get it the first time. I'll even back you up on several of your claims and complaints. But I really don't see the point in diverting thread after thread into back and forths about the same issue: pay and lack of student motivation. Phil's thread on conversation classes was a sincere attempt at getting discussion going about how to run an effective conversation class. The thread was immediately derailed. I just like to see a worthy topic get its attention. I like to see progression. |
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