Job Discussion Forums

[anon]

Friendships with Japanese

I've been living in Tokyo for over a year now teaching English and exploring the metropolis. I like the city, convenience stores everywhere, large department filled with anything under the sun, good service almost everywhere, awesome tasting food and an efficient worldclass transportation system. My homestay family has been ever so kind and
generous to me and, by living with them I've really come to grasp the culture difference but I've adjusted and perhaps being Asian has made it a little easier.
I love this place.
But one thing really bites. One key element lacking that would make my stay/experience here all the more wonderful and fulfilling, and it's friendship.

After 14 months in a city of 12million I have not yet established a close, genuine friendship with a Japanese (this is excluding my homestay family however). I've met on average a dozen new faces per month from students to language exchange partners. Some friendships lasted
for 2-3months and one even lasted for 6months. Heck, I thought we were friends. Then all of a sudden *nothing*. They don't reply my e-mails, phone calls, nothing or they would say the infamous phrase "Sorry I'm busy". Up to now I'd say 5 Japanese have abandoned our friendship.

I've asked some of the foreigners here and they also responded the same about the difficulty of making friends. Why is it difficult to make friends here? I've not had the same problem in Canada and it's no longer a language barrier factor.

I've heard that Japanese don't consider friendships in short periods of time but why do they end so quickly? Is it only me? Is it only Tokyo people?

If anyone has some insight, please enlighten me.

patient

[Sunpower]

[Lucy Snow]

My husband and I had kind of the same thing happen to us.

We knew several Japanese people in the American city we were in. We helped them out a lot--introducing them to people, dealing with the local police when one of them crashed her rental car, aiding them in research at the university they were attending, proofreading their papers, etc.

They all went back to Japan. My husband was hired at a university. When we arrived in Japan, we contacted those people we knew in the States. In eight years, we saw them a total of three times. Not only did they not want to meet with us, they refused to help us with anything when we asked. My husband and I tried not to burden our Japanese friends too much, and since my husband spoke almost fluent Japanese, difficulties didn't come up too often but sometimes we needed assistance. These "friends" would flatly say no--and when we asked why, one of them responded, "Because I don't want to."

I don't want to make broad generalizations about Japanese/gaijin friendships, but our experience with this crew left a bad taste in our mouths. After living in Japan for a while, we started making new friends, but like anon said, you'd see them for a few months and then you'd never see them again.

Others seemed to want foreigners as "pets" and as long as we needed them it was ok, but once we became independent, it was like they felt there was no reason for the friendship. That, I think, hurt most of all. We really liked these people, and didn't want to be friends just because they could be useful to us.

But I'm happy to say that we did make some strong, long-lasting friendships, people who are still in contact with us even though we left two years ago. Hang in there, anon, they're out there.

[Guest]

There were times in Japan I felt like people saw me not so much as a pet, but more of a hobby than a friend. If they didn't feel like studying English they also wouldn't feel like meeting me.

When they say they are busy though, it might be right. Some Japanese people can be so preoccupied with work that they really don't have time to meet friends. I was genuinely shocked that some really nice Japanse girls have few or no friends but are too busy to notice.

I think there is something to be said about the codependency of Japanese relationships. The culture is based on this sense of giving and taking and sometimes it can be really hard to get your head around the way Japanese have a tendency to think. As in Lucy's case it can seem like they're just being plain unreasonable. Of course this situation is not exclusive to Japanese. There are unreasonably stubbon people in all cultures. What makes it more frustrating though is that they are unlikely to want to enter into a discussion to explain their motives.

However as Lucy said, hang in there. Even if the shortlived friendships are not what you are accustomed to it's better than nothing and if you have a little gaman it may just pay off.

[homersimpson]

This is a common problem for many of us foreigners, and there's no one correct answer. I've had similar experiences to those posted (temporary "friends" who disappear after a few months). There are so many reasons. First, most, if not all, Japanese are artificially busy; they create this reality where they are always busy (there are many reasons for this). Also, it is a somewhat closed society (societal roles are clearly defined; gaijin have a role, too, primarily as an outsider). And there is a feeling of obligation in this culture (if you assist someone or give them a gift, regardless of how small, a typical Japanese person will feel indebted to you; many do not want to put themselves in that situation). Finally, and perhaps telling, is that the majority of gaijin in Japan are not here for the long-haul. We don't intend to spend the next 40+ of our remaining years in Japan. Therefore, you will always be looked at as someone "temporary." (A Western analogy: How many of the people you considered friends in high school or college do you still meet with or talk to on a regular basis? Those were temporary, transitional years and most of those people have long-since been forgotten.) Of course that doesn't mean you can't have a great experience in Japan and possibly make some great friends, just don't expect friendship-making to be the same as in the West. It's not, and never will be.

[Brooks]

yep,
I hear you.
I am in my third year here. I work in Tokyo.
One main reason that will persuade me to leave is a lack of friends.
I have tried.
I find that I have to go to Europe or America for a decent conversation.
At some point I will quit. We are all transients. I will miss my salary, but I will take a pay cut because life is more than money.
I have a good job, so that is why I have stayed.

It may be because I work in Tokyo.
I wonder if it is easier to meet people in smaller places, or in Kansai, Kyushu, or Shikoku.
My girlfriend lives in Osaka and we take turns seeing each other.
She thinks Tokyo people are cold and I generally agree with her.

Living in Tokyo is a trade off. There are more jobs here with better pay, than in other parts of Japan.

I used to meet people for language exchanges but I got sick of it because it was more beneficial to them. Some didn`t know how to teach Japanese or didn`t have the patience. It seemed that I had to initiate meetings all the time, and people stopped e-mailing me so I stopped e-mailing them.
Some were nice and I wanted to see them again but they didn`t respond to my e-mails.
Some were cheap and wanted free English.

If you want I can post a link of a group that meets in Higashi-Ginza called EC88. They meet on Fridays from 6:45 to 8:45
They are a group of people who get together to practice English and they welcome natives to come. Afterwards, they go out to eat.
They are quite a serious bunch.
Sometimes they get together on Saturdays. They like to go to this cheap izakaya near Ueno, where for two hours you can eat and drink what you like for 2,000 yen.
There also is a group that meets in Kawasaki called EC96.

Brooks

[Brooks]

this is the way I feel about Japan.
The book The Outnation summed it up.
And, it is like the book You Gotta Have Wa, which is about baseball in Japan.
In one chapter American players in Japan are together drinking beer, saying to each other, "should I stay another year?"
Being in Japan must be somewhat like joining the military. Before you join you think of the benefits and later, once you are in Japan awhile you wonder what you were thinking.
Afterwards, you think of the money you made and the experience you have gained.
While you stuck it out, some people chose to go AWOL.
One guy I knew left in the middle of the night for Narita.

Brooks

[guest of Japan]

I think I agree with everything that has been said including the things which would seem to contradict.

Another thing which I've noticed is that many Japanese don't consider anyone they meet after High School to be a true friend.

But I also have to say don't lose hope. I can count a few people as being quite good friends. They are a rare breed, but they are absolutely amazing people.

My Japanese isn't great and I've never lived in Tokyo. I think I recommend trying to have a shared interest outside of work and English.
It can even be beer.

[nakanoalien2]

A question and comment regarding the previous posts:

-What do you think is the driver behind being artificially busy? I've been trying to figure that one out for some time now. My general feeling is that Japanese take a huge number of classes and lessons. Not just English, but CPA prep, European Cuisine, Financial Management, Tea Ceremony, etc. I feel that this is some sort of networking and a way to have structured interaction with other people. Possibly to meet a spouse in some cases?

-Brooks - have totally been in the same language exchange situation, in fact in Machida. And you didn't even mention the male/female relationship factor. I find that it is alot easier to meet women than men in Japan, but being friends is just as difficult. Even if you start out with a friendship or language exchange, you often find yourself with a woman with different intentions. I have also been directly told, "I want to have a foreign boyfriend so I can practice English". If you are serious about learning Japanese, this is a real problem.

[Brooks]

yeah, what I found is if I want to learn Japanese I have to pay someone or go to one of those volunteer classes that are close to me: Sagami-Ono or Hashimoto, for example.
One American woman I know said it was hard for her to meet Japanese women. The only one she may know is one she sees for a language exchange in Minimi-Rinkan.
Heck, even my girlfriend likes the free English aspect. She teaches in Osaka, and is studying to be an interpreter, so free English with me on the weekends is a plus for her.
For me as a man, it is hard to make friends here period.

In Tokyo many people are really busy, and don`t do much besides work.
All their energy goes to work or drinking with their co-workers afterwards.
Where I work there are Japanese teachers who have to work 1-3 Sundays a month, or even on December 25th, even though my school is apparently a Christian school.


Recently, I came back from a vacation in Germany and Poland and I saw my American friend in Machida. She said I looked happy, and I was because I had a good time socializing there.

Brooks

[Gouki]

On the other hand,

Some foreigners aren't as friendly either, you can never tell who is here for the girls/money or for being here.

The place that I'm staying at consists of varous cultures, hardly any of them want to mix around. If they did, it would be for the reason of using each other.

For example, this black guy will help this chinese student look for jobs (he's been here for 8 years?) if only she become's his girlfriend. He already has a wife and kid back home in Nigeria. At first, this student refused (who wouldn't?). Later, she had no choice as it seems as though no japanese wanted to employ her based on her race (she is a Chinese native). She is not yet his girlfriend, but they are definitely on better terms than they used to be.

I'd say not everyone is going to be like that (using you), people do seem to behave business-like. I'm sure that you will find other foreigners in the same position as you, perhaps you might want to link up with them and enjoy similar stuff back home.

[thinkjedi]

I find it ironic that my Japanese girlfriend, who lived in the US for the past 3 years, experienced this very situation. She was frustrated that she never could get a close friendship with Americans. I live in a town with lots of international students, and she said that many of them experience the "he/she is only temporary" syndrome.

There is also a certain amount of effort that is required to get close to someone who doesn't speak your language natively. People tend to shy away from relationships that require more effort than they're ready to put out. Just my .02.

David

[azarashi sushi]

It seems odd though that Tokyo people should have an issue with temporaryness . . . Nothing here is built to last and the city lives for the new. . . Buildings are built with a very limited lifespan, there is a newer model everything appearing every two minutes and people get bored with things very quickly. . . And even the Japanese population of Tokyo is at least in part a transient group. It often seems that this "living for the new" applies to people aswell . . . Japanese get bored with things easily.

I realise a lot of friendships everywhere in the world are temporary . . . When you leave school or university or change jobs or whatever . . .Perhaps I'm remembering it better than it is but it does seems that those temporary friendships back home at least ran their course and faded away naturally . . . I can relate to what the other posters say... It does seem that friendships here often come to a sudden and very permanent end for no apparent reason.

I had a similar experience with a friend last year just after cherry blossom time... I rang him up one day and said "Hey let's go out for dinner next weekend or whenever " . . . His reply was, (yes you guessed it) "Sorry I'm very busy . . . I might be free in October, but I'll let you know"... This was in April! Of course I took the hint and didn't hold my breath hanging out for October.... but just out of curiosity I did contact him again in October . . . Sure enough he was still busy.

Friendships here do seem to have to have a very definite purpose... otherwise forget it. If there is no special need for it, there is no friendship.

I agree with the other posters too... People live for work. Work is everything and they often don't have a lot of time for other things... other than drinking with their co-workers.

A.S.

[homersimpson]

Yes, Tokyo is the home to temporary. But Japanese will always be Japanese (gaijin will always be gaijin). If nothing else, there is that common bond. That said, Japanese do blow off each other as well. Asians generally have a belief that "we are Asian we think alike." I actually had a couple Korean girls tell me they hated Americans for all they've done to Korea, yet they were quite comfortable living and studying at a Japanese university near Tokyo. Go figure.

[Lucy Snow]

I used to have Japanese students tell me how much they hated Iranians--there were a lot of them hanging around Ueno Station in Tokyo, brought here during the bubble economy to do menial labor, and then when the bubble burst, they stayed on and sold phone cards (possibly counterfeit).

Anyway, when a student would tell me how much they hated them, I would always ask how many Iranians they know, or have they ever talked to anyone from that country?

Of course, the answer was no.

But then I'd go back to the US to visit my parents, and invariably an eldery relative would ask me how I got along with the "Japs" Then he'd go go into a riff about how "sneaky" the Japanese are, how they can't be trusted. Of course, he'd never met a Japanese person in his life. For him, WWII never really ended.