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Roam
Joined: 21 Apr 2004
Posts: 24
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 Posted: Sat Apr 24, 2004 12:13 am Post subject: Can I change jobs + girlfriend issues? |
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I have just started to research ESL employment in Japan. Is is possible to accept a job at one school and then switch to another school after I arrive in Japan?  What are the visa issues involved in this situation?
Also, how would the Japanese tend to react to me living with my Korean girlfriend while I am working in Japan? My Korean girlfriend would like to join me while I taught there. I heard that this depends on the size of the community you live in as they are a bit more open minded in the bigger cities. Would it be necessary to lie and tell them that my Korean girlfriend was my wife? Can she just hang out on a tourist visa and keep renewing it? If I arranged my own apartment, independant of my employer, would this effect the situation at all?
Thanks for your time. |
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Gordon
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 5309
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Sat Apr 24, 2004 3:44 am Post subject: |
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No I wouldn't lie about your gfriend being your wife. What if they found out? Yes you can change jobs after you get here, but if you are already thinking of changing jobs before you even get here......what does that say about you?
You can get your own apt if you want, but be aware that you will have to pay key money (5 months rent, furnish it yourself and many other costs). Japan is a lot more expensive than Korea, which I;m sure you are aware of. How will your gfriend support herself, is she rich or are you going to pay for everything for her? |
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PAULH
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 4672
Location: Western Japan
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| Posted: Sat Apr 24, 2004 3:52 am Post subject: Re: Can I change jobs + girlfriend issues? |
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| Roam wrote: |
I have just started to research ESL employment in Japan. Is is possible to accept a job at one school and then switch to another school after I arrive in Japan? What are the visa issues involved in this situation?
As the visa is yours to keep (unlike Korea where it belongs to the employer) it is feasible to hand in notice and quit during your contract. You can work on the same visa under the same sponsor until it expires. But dont foreget you may spend some time looking for a job, furnishing an apartment, buying a phone line so quitting early is not always sensible from a financial point of view. When you renew your visa you will need a new sponsor for your visa. You are required to give a minimum of one months notice if you quit your job or the term stated on your work contract
Also, how would the Japanese tend to react to me living with my Korean girlfriend while I am working in Japan? My Korean girlfriend would like to join me while I taught there. I heard that this depends on the size of the community you live in as they are a bit more open minded in the bigger cities. Would it be necessary to lie and tell them that my Korean girlfriend was my wife? Can she just hang out on a tourist visa and keep renewing it? If I arranged my own apartment, independant of my employer, would this effect the situation at all?
Thanks for your time. |
This is a sticky issue as when you rent accomodation with your employer, many of them will not let you live with a grilfriend. Some do not even let your spouse live with you unless both of you are working for the company.
Smaller communities tend to be more conservative and they will make it their business to know who you are where you work and what you do at night. Japanese dont have the Christian moral hangups about living in sin that they do in the west, but you may get some stares and gossip mongering. If you rent an apartment you will still need a guarantor (usually your employer) and they will want to know who is living there. You can get into trouble with the landlady and your employer if you are sneaking someone in every other night and they are not registered there. You may have to ask your employer whether its Ok to live with someone else when you rent your own place and they are the guarantor.
If your girlfriend is from Korea and on a tourist visa she may have to show she has a means of supporting herself if they renew her visa. It is possible that they will refuse to re-issue a tourist visa, and worst case be deported for overstaying illegally. The legal maximum is two 90-day tourist visas. |
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shmooj
Joined: 11 Sep 2003
Posts: 1758
Location: Seoul, ROK
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| Posted: Sat Apr 24, 2004 11:40 am Post subject: Re: Can I change jobs + girlfriend issues? |
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| PAULH wrote: |
| Christian moral hangups about living in sin |
Hellooooo.... "social acceptance"... give us a break will you? If we didn't have your so-called "moral hangups" about "living in sin", we wouldn't be Christians at all!!! Lord help us...  |
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PAULH
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 4672
Location: Western Japan
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| Posted: Sat Apr 24, 2004 12:35 pm Post subject: |
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schmooj
You can be a transvestite and living with your boyfriend and having a sex-change for all I care.
the average newbie here comes from a white WASP Anglo Saxon/Christian background armed with a BA degree, bring all their ethical baggage with them. That is their frame of reference re what is acceptable or allowed. Judeo-Christian ethics about living with unmarried girlfriends dont apply to foreign teachers here. Japanese dont care whether you live with your girlfriend, are married, are gay or have two heads. They just see two foreigners who put trash out on the wrong day, have noisy parties and cant speak Japanese. Employers see someone living in their apartment not paying rent.
They have their own rules re who they rent to and they are usually economic, not politically correct, not based on your social or economic status. By definition foreigners are treated differently than Japanese and a non working foreign dependent is one less person paying rent into the coffers of the company bank account. |
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Gordon
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 5309
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Sat Apr 24, 2004 2:09 pm Post subject: |
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| PAULH wrote: |
| Japanese dont care whether you live with your girlfriend, are married, are gay or have two heads. |
Not true at all. Maybe you don't care Paul, but the Japanese do. Are you telling me they would treat me the same if I was living with a gfriend instead of a wife? Come on. |
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PAULH
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 4672
Location: Western Japan
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| Posted: Sat Apr 24, 2004 2:37 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="Gordon"]
| PAULH wrote: |
Not true at all. Maybe you don't care Paul, but the Japanese do. Are you telling me they would treat me the same if I was living with a gfriend instead of a wife? Come on. |
Gordon
they wont treat you the same because you are a gaijin and not Japanese. Dont assume you have to live by the same rules that Japanes do, as they expect you to behave and think differently due to culture language.
they have their own rules regarding what is acceptable (some landlords wont rent to single women for example) that may differ from our own rules. Why do schools like AEON refuse to rent you an apartment if you come with your (foreign) wife? They expect you to live separately even though you are married and maybe even have kids. Not exactlly living in sin. God forbid what the neighbors might think.
Some Japanese unmarried couples do live together, but they are also japanese and speak the language and understand the culture. Its not an ethical issue, its about knowing what is accepted.
Anyway, I live in a mansion apartment, have not even met my neignbors, dont know what their names are and if they have any kids. Why should they care about me or whether I live with my girlfriend?
In a smaller city or town people will notice (I lived in takamatsu for a year and was probably followed home more than once). Bigger cities you can be anonymous and people dont really care who or what your partner is, whether or not you are married (unless you live in your employers accomodation of course). |
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shmooj
Joined: 11 Sep 2003
Posts: 1758
Location: Seoul, ROK
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| Posted: Sat Apr 24, 2004 2:40 pm Post subject: |
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| PAULH wrote: |
schmooj
You can be a transvestite and living with your boyfriend and having a sex-change for all I care.
the average newbie here comes from a white WASP Anglo Saxon/Christian background armed with a BA degree, bring all their ethical baggage with them. That is their frame of reference re what is acceptable or allowed. Judeo-Christian ethics about living with unmarried girlfriends dont apply to foreign teachers here. Japanese dont care whether you live with your girlfriend, are married, are gay or have two heads. They just see two foreigners who put trash out on the wrong day, have noisy parties and cant speak Japanese. Employers see someone living in their apartment not paying rent.
They have their own rules re who they rent to and they are usually economic, not politically correct, not based on your social or economic status. By definition foreigners are treated differently than Japanese and a non working foreign dependent is one less person paying rent into the coffers of the company bank account. |
sorry Paul, you seem to be replying to another post here.
Let me put it succinctly - you offended my by using the language you did in regard to what a Christian believes. |
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PAULH
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 4672
Location: Western Japan
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| Posted: Sat Apr 24, 2004 2:53 pm Post subject: |
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Schmooj
speaking as a lapsed catholic, former altar boy and product of a catholic school education (we will leave the priest scandal out of this for the moment)
You have Christians and Catholics and others telling others how they should behave, what is moral and ethical and enforcing their ethics and opinions and others. what is acceptable from a Buddhist/Japanese point of view id different from a western.Christian viewpoint. Living in Sin was a figure of speech.
Before i get on my soapbox, what upset you exactly?
What I was trying to say is that living with your girlfriend here is not seen as the big taboo that it is in western societies. Anyway, his girlfriend is (foreigner) Korean, not japanese, so they may not hold her to the same high standards as they would a local girl. (If she was Japanese and living with a foreigner my guess is they would think she is a *beep*, but thats my guess) |
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Roam
Joined: 21 Apr 2004
Posts: 24
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| Posted: Sat Apr 24, 2004 8:28 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for the input and interesting dialogue. I wanted to know about changing employers because I have read more than a few horror stories about how some westerners are treated by their employers in Japan. I was trying to understand whether it was an option to change where I work or whether I should anticipate a possible return home if I ended up in a bad situation over there. I have no intentions of leaving until my contract year of work is completed.
I think I get the gist of possibly living with my Korean girlfriend. In a bigger city, working for a smaller school, if I pay set up my apartment myself, I can probably live with my partner without too many problems.
As for the other debate that cropped up on this thread, the mindset of the person who rents me my place and gives me a job isn't my concern so much at this stage. My concern is whether or not I can live with my Korean girlfriend over there without too many hastles.
It seems that this is possible, if a little difficult? |
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PAULH
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 4672
Location: Western Japan
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| Posted: Sat Apr 24, 2004 9:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Roam wrote: |
Thanks for the input and interesting dialogue. I wanted to know about changing employers because I have read more than a few horror stories about how some westerners are treated by their employers in Japan. I was trying to understand whether it was an option to change where I work or whether I should anticipate a possible return home if I ended up in a bad situation over there. I have no intentions of leaving until my contract year of work is completed.
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Roam
unlike Korea you dont have to go back to your home country, they can not take your visa away or deport you if you leave your job. Simply give 2-4 weeks notice, line up a job and leave. The visa goes with you. Some employers are unscrupulous but you must also rememeber some teachers are at fault for agreeing to work for low wages or they are keen to work here they will accept anything and then they burnt. Some newbies treat their jobs like a vacation, S__T in their own nest and make it harder for the next person. NOVA has many of these arcane rules because of lack of maturity, lack of experience living in a foreign country and culture, and anti-social, even illegal behavior on the part of its teachers. Some times teachers bring it on themselves as they dont have a mature and professional attitude towards their jobs.
Your contract is for a year and depending on the school you may see out the contract. NOVA has a 70% turnover and teachers there last about 6-8 months out of a 12-month contract. That is why it pays to look closely at the contract, the conditions and talk to other people working there. What their experience is may be different for you, as your expectations and needs may be different too. |
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Brooks
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Posts: 1369
Location: Sagamihara
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| Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2004 2:07 am Post subject: |
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I can give a couple examples.
One American teacher is going to live with his Korean girlfriend in Ishikawa. She has a work visa and has an apartment, and he will move in.
He has a work visa as well. No problem.
In my case I live with my Japanese girlfriend. My problem was that I decided to move to a new and bigger place and so needed a guarantor. I was informed that my institution could not be my guarantor unless I was married. So my boss said he would be my guarantor because he didn`t want me to quit. |
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shmooj
Joined: 11 Sep 2003
Posts: 1758
Location: Seoul, ROK
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| Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2004 10:40 am Post subject: |
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Actually Roam, I've just reread the title of this thread and realised that I may have misunderstood...
is it changing your girlfriend you are also seeking advice on...  |
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Jolly
Joined: 12 Apr 2004
Posts: 202
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| Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2004 4:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Gordon wrote: |
| No I wouldn't lie about your gfriend being your wife. What if they found out? |
Good advice! Take it!  |
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alibaba
Joined: 21 Apr 2004
Posts: 6
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| Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2004 4:58 am Post subject: to paul |
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no paul, nova has many of these rules because they are in league with satan and each of these rules means that they squeeze a few extra yen from the teachers they rip off on a regular basis. Dont mean to flame as such but NOVA use this type of sh*te talk in order to justify their substandard (in some cases illegal) working conditions.
to roam, you can change to another job with ease. And in my limited experience (6years) the japanese will not give a flying f**k if you live with your korean girlfriend socially speaking. As for the apartment rules that changes with place to place but the almost universally accepted rule about doing stuff in Japan that might be not 100 percent straight up is DO IT and DO NOT ASK PERMISSION. Keep it up until someone says hey you can't do that and then claim ignorance and try to come to some arrangment.
my twapence wirth |
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