Job Discussion Forums

[Teflon Don]

[artemisia]

I have what I grandly refer to as an �international� accent. This means everywhere I go I�m constantly asked where I�m from � by other native English speakers of a variety of nationalities - who have so far determined I must be British, American or Canadian. I don�t think I�ve had South African, Australian or NZer though. I think people just have a wild stab at it when they�re not sure.

You didn�t give examples of what you mean by much bigger differences between BE and AE but apart from accent (and there is, of course, a wide range of North American and British accents) I�m aware there are differences with expressions and grammar. For example, the idiomatic phrase �I�m going out tonight to paint the town red� would be considered BE (though it�s not commonly used these days). I�ve heard Americans use a different expression for this which I can�t remember now.

I don�t see the differences as being big enough to cause real difficulties for students apart from accent. I once watched an Australian film with American friends who absolutely could not understand the very strong accents. I had no problem with them and we stopped the film initially so I could �translate�! In the end we put subtitles on. If you can�t understand a word or phrase because of the way somebody says it, then that�s going to be problematic for anyone. For the most part, Asian and European students have had no problems understanding me or so they�ve told me.

[johnslat]

Dear artemisia,


"For example, the idiomatic phrase �I�m going out tonight to paint the town red� would be considered BE . . ."

Really? I'm American and I've used, read and heard that phrase countless times here in the States.


So, I got curious:

"Actually, as pointed out above, the first use of the phrase in print is quite a lot later - not until 1883 in fact, and in New York, not Leicestershire. The New York Times, July 1883 has:

"Mr. James Hennessy offered a resolution that the entire body proceed forthwith to Newark and get drunk... Then the Democrats charged upon the street cars, and being wafted into Newark proceeded, to use their own metaphor, to 'paint the town red'."

The other early references to the phrase also relate to America rather than England. The November 1884 edition of the Boston [Mass.] Journal has:

"Whenever there was any excitement or anybody got particularly loud, they always said somebody was 'painting the town red'."

The next is Rudyard Kipling. That's as English as you can get one would have thought. In this case though he too is referring to America - in his book Abaft Funnel, 1889:

"They would do their best towards painting that town [Chicago] in purest vermilion."

There are other theories too:

Jaipur (The Pink City) is the capital of the Indian state of Rajasthan. The old buildings of the city are constructed from pink sandstone. In 1853 it was painted pink in honour of a visit from Prince Albert. If that were the origin though, why don't we paint the town pink?

William and Mary Morris in their Morris Dictionary of Word and Phrase Origins say it probably originated on the American frontier. They link it to 'red light district' and suggest that people out for a night 'on the town' might very well take it into their heads to make the whole town red. Well, they might, then again they might not.

It is sometimes said to come from the US slang use of "paint" to mean "drink", When someone's drunk their face and nose are flushed red, hence the analogy.

As so often, there are plausible suggestions but no conclusive evidence, so the jury is still out on this one. Based on what we currently have, it seems that the phrase originated in the USA around 1883 - there are many US citations of the phrase in print for that year and none earlier. "

"Interestingly the movie "High Plains Drifter" starring Clint Eastwood
actually had a scene in which the entire town was painted red,
literally. In this Western, Clint played a tough character who sought
revenge on the town folk that had wronged him.
Clint basically manhandled and had his way with the entire town. In a
dramatic scene he had them paint all the buildings red - and change
the name of the town to Hell."

http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/paint-the-town-red.html

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.usage.english/browse_frm/thread/2fc3ce36fa122af9?hl=en&prev=/groups?as_ugroup%3Dalt.usage.english%26num%3D100%26as_scoring%3Dd&pli=1


Regards,
John

[artemisia]

So ''to paint the town red" is American in origin and used regularly in the States. It's often, wrongly then, attributed to Lord Waterford of Leicestershire.

[johntpartee]

I believe that every time I've heard the phrase (in real life, not in the movies or on TV) it has been "paint the town". Not any particular colour. Perhaps that's the "Americanism".