Job Discussion Forums

[juggler]

Hi, I�ve been working at my school for over 6 years now and the last time I went home (UK) was in 2006. I have been married to a Chinese woman for 3 years.
The school has arranged Foreign Expert�s Certificates and Z visas for me with no unusual problems every year.
I had to renew again in December and the school said that they could only get me another FE certificate until 30th July 2011 (and so a visa with the same date) because I haven�t been out of China since August 2006. They say "It�s something to do with not being out of the country for 5 years".
Does anyone know if this is a rule, or if I will need to go home, or only to HK?
Any input / experience / ideas about the situation would be appreciated, because the school won�t see it as a problem until the day before the next renewal.

Thanks in advance for any help

Alan

[johntpartee]

It is technically a "rule". A foreign teacher here was denied renewal because of it. HOWEVER, many foreigners are here for much longer with no problem. I know this doesn't help much, but I think it has something to do with the connections of the employer and/or simply the discretion of the powers that be. I've also heard of other "rules within the rule". I was told that one teacher who had to leave had to be out of China for a full year before he could return.

[juggler]

Thanks for the reply John. That was my way of thinking, go with the flow, my school really wants to keep me ............
But I also posted on another forum and got this reply, which scared me a bit I must admit.

Ignore visa touts like tiffany above, they don't understand the underlying issue.
But I do--it has to do with foreigner taxation (IIT-individual income tax), and I'll oversimplify a bit. Basically, when you are a resident foreigner working legitimately (work permit or FEC), you are subject to taxation on all your China-sourced income (China job, income from renting a China property, etc.). After 5 years, Chinese law makes a resident foreigner subject to Chinese IIT taxation on their worldwide income, which gets into another level of complexity. That you and your employer won't want to get into. This is why your employer is only willing to get/keep you legal up to the 5 year time limit, which is this coming summer. (2006-2011)
Most expats--especially corporate people on larger salaries and with income from other sources outside China--know about this and avoid being here more than 5 years continuously. How do you do this? Well, Chinese law on this actually makes it easy to do--what you need to do is either:
(a) Leave the PRC for 30+ full days continuously in any calendar year...excluding the travel days in/out of the country. Continuous means just that--leave for a month plus and don't come back til after that; or
(b) Be out of the PRC for 90+ days cumulatively in any calendar year...also excluding travel days. The 90+ days can be done in pieces.
Either of these maneuvers in effect, breaks the Chinese legal definition of "continuous residence" and resets your taxation clock basis back to Year 1. Quirky, but I've done it a couple of times with my last "reset" in 2008. You can go anywhere you wish for your temporary exile, as long as it is outside the PRC.
It's actually best to do this reset before getting to the very end of the 5 year period, as you are about to find out. This is so that you can get a renewed work permit/FEC/residence permit without having a complete break in your paperwork. If you get to the end of your current visa/permits and then leave the country for your exile, you may have to jump through all the employment hoops again (medical, etc), just as if you were a new expat arriving for the first time. Unless your school/organization has some kick-ass guanxi and can shortcut some of the usual process. My practical suggestion is to work with your school to see if you can take an extended Chinese New Year holiday--maybe find a substitute short-termer to take your place for days you'll miss. They might be willing to do this, especially if you and your school hit it off well, they want to keep you, and you want to continue on with them beyond the summer.
If you can manage to do that 30+ day exile, then come back and they should be able to do a normal 12 month renewal of all permits and FEC at any time after your return. If your intention is NOT to continue on with them but come back to China, then you might wish to just leave things alone, leave when your contract/paperwork expires, stay out 30+ days on a natural holiday, then return and jump through the usual hoops with a new employer. In this case, you might want to get a new position under contract before you leave your current one, and from the new employer, get the paperwork needed to get a Z visa in HK (or elsewhere), which you'll use on your return to China at end of summer. Don't forget that release letter from your current employer, get it before you leave.


So I spoke to the school this morning, they said if i have to go home, then OK, but as far as they're concerned my visa can be renewed again in July because I'm married.

What started as 'belt and braces' inquiry has just blown my mind.

I'm not a high earner, but I do have some income from home, so if that post is true, then I could have problems.

Any ideas / experiences anyone?

Alan

[Sinobear]

I've been in country 13 years...only left once in 98 and haven't left since.

Maybe having 3 different passports in that time has had something to do with the continuous, hassle-free renewals.

I've really only have first-hand knowledge of rules being strictly enforced for brand new visas and for those whom the "powers-that-be" want out.

[juggler]

Thanks for that Sinobear.
To be honest I think this is the kind of story I want to hear, from people who have been here for ages and had no problems renewing or from the tax department.

Anyone else?

Alan

[Teatime of Soul]

Been here 5+ years. No sweat.

[Zero]

As I understand it, the SAFEA has something about needing to take a two-year break after five years of continuous residence. It's something to do with your English becoming rusty and needing to be refreshed. As I understand it, the SAFEA rules are non-binding. So some provinces may follow them more closely than others.

[mike w]

Been getting my FEC and RP (as it is now) renewed for the last 15 years. Never been out of China for more than 21 days in one go. Never been out of China for more than 28 days in any one year.

During that time I've had four different employers (in my 5th. year with current employer). Applied for renewal of FEC and RP in three different provinces. Never had any problems. Been straightforward every time.

[7969]

[YankeeDoodleDandy]

I have been here for nearly 8 years and no problems yet. I'm a little long in the tooth, as I'm 61 and I have to tell my beautiful Chinese girlfriend that I'm not as good as I once was. Ha Ha This is for Jeff in Florida and a few other old China Hands. Have a wonderful Spring Festival

[juggler]

Thanks for all the help, support and advice guys.

The situation as it stands:

I am more worried about the tax implications than the visa. For those of you who are interested here�s a link that was posted on another forum, but as one poster mentioned, are the Chinese tax authorities really going to come and chase me? I�m a teacher, not a CEO.

http://www.china-briefing.com/news/2010/01/12/expatriate-income-tax-planning-in-china.html

I have emailed the HR department of the main school and made my concerns clear. I am awaiting their reply and will let you all know how it goes.

If they think it�s best, I�ll leave for the 30 days and try to make it somewhere cheap.

Thanks again for all your support

Alan

[igorG]

[7969]

you're not a local. you're a guest worker. full stop.

your job here is (supposedly) teach english. not make waves with local authorities or local people. once you understand that your life might change for the better while in china.

[johntpartee]

[johntpartee]

I just read your entire post, igorG, and I realize you're being sarcastic. My apologies; that last sentence just leaped out at me.