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amaranto
Joined: 02 Jun 2009 Posts: 133 Location: M�xico, D.F.
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Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 5:27 pm Post subject: |
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I've observed what you might call anti-American attitudes with respect to ideology, that is, I've had people express their opinions to me about how Mexico is, in their opinion, unfortunately too close to the US, which has had some negative effects on the country. I've never, however, encountered any hostility on a personal level as a result of being American. Maybe this is because I speak Spanish and show an interest in Mexican culture. Certainly, walking around and talking about how bad everything is in Mexico compared to the US is not going to help a foreigner make friends here. |
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Isla Guapa
Joined: 19 Apr 2010 Posts: 1520 Location: Mexico City o sea La Gran Manzana Mexicana
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Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 5:39 pm Post subject: |
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Amaranto has hit the nail on the head. Of course, there's a lot of resentment here of the US for all sorts of historical and political reasons, but I've never felt these feelings directed at me personally as an individual from the States. Apart from political resentments, most Mexicans I know still think the US is a neat place they would like to visit one day, if they already haven't done so. |
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Guy Courchesne

Joined: 10 Mar 2003 Posts: 9650 Location: Mexico City
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Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 5:56 pm Post subject: |
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Prof.Gringo wrote: |
Guy Courchesne wrote: |
If education and languages weren't seen as important here, then you wouldn't have so many schools |
Since opening an English school up seems like one of the easiest businesses to start up in Mexico, the answer seems pretty clear. Also, having a shabby EFL school on every corner doesn't mean the actual level of EFL learning or education is very advanced.
As to high tuition and fees, again, that doesn't mean that the schools deliver a quality education. When people pay to learn and then have an attitude that they had better pass or else, what kind of educational environment does that foster? Not a very productive one.
The severe lack of book stores, libraries, the poor investment in public schools, corruption in SEP/SNTE, low teacher pay, generally low ESL/EFL levels, all of those point to a lack of interest in education being a true priority.
I have taught in colegios and seen firsthand the approach to education and EFL. We were expected to pass Ss at any cost. And that same thing continues into the uni level as well. Pay and pass. |
All very valid points, though not particularly accurate.
You can't say parents and students are not interested in education and languages by pointing at the deficiencies in the system, public and private. To truly see firsthand how important education and the English language is in particular, you'd be a parent, finding room in your budget to get your kid to a better school and often into EFL classes on top of it. |
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MotherF
Joined: 07 Jun 2010 Posts: 1450 Location: 17�48'N 97�46'W
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Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 7:04 pm Post subject: |
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Guy Courchesne wrote: |
Prof.Gringo wrote: |
Guy Courchesne wrote: |
If education and languages weren't seen as important here, then you wouldn't have so many schools |
Since opening an English school up seems like one of the easiest businesses to start up in Mexico, the answer seems pretty clear. Also, having a shabby EFL school on every corner doesn't mean the actual level of EFL learning or education is very advanced.
As to high tuition and fees, again, that doesn't mean that the schools deliver a quality education. When people pay to learn and then have an attitude that they had better pass or else, what kind of educational environment does that foster? Not a very productive one.
The severe lack of book stores, libraries, the poor investment in public schools, corruption in SEP/SNTE, low teacher pay, generally low ESL/EFL levels, all of those point to a lack of interest in education being a true priority.
I have taught in colegios and seen firsthand the approach to education and EFL. We were expected to pass Ss at any cost. And that same thing continues into the uni level as well. Pay and pass. |
All very valid points, though not particularly accurate.
You can't say parents and students are not interested in education and languages by pointing at the deficiencies in the system, public and private. To truly see firsthand how important education and the English language is in particular, you'd be a parent, finding room in your budget to get your kid to a better school and often into EFL classes on top of it. |
I agree with Guy here and MOD EDIT
We've been over and over with the topic of language school owners not caring about the quality of the product they are offering. I'm sure several will turn up here to defend themselves, but it's the ones who are not on this forum that we are talking about. Businessmen who are just interested in getting the biggest possible return on their investment. There used to be an Ingles Individual in my town, the owner of the franchise sent his sales reps to monthly sales training workshops but never ever did anything to show he cared a drop about his teachers professional development.
I think it's no secret that the VERY presitigous colegios in Mexico City do care about education, places like the American School Foundation. But those schools are for the very elite, not the masses. There are a lot of middle line private schools that are run as businesses. It's my feeling that parents choose those schools because they can't afford the very top schools and want something other than the public schools. Not because they don't care.
If you ever have the opportunity to go to a parent's association at a public school you will see that parents of those children do care--very much--but are often disenfranchised, unexperienced, uneducated themselves, over worked and overwelmed and so end up feeling frustrated about their lack of ablity to truely improve their children's education and opportunities in life.
In my opinion lack of bookstores show more of a lack of interest in Culture (with a capital C) than a lack of interest in Education. A problem yes, but a different one.
Lack of investment in public school steams from lack of local say in public schools--schools are federal, no local school board with the authority to levee taxes like in the US.
Problems with the SNTE--hell yes, I'm in favor of unions, but I'd be in favor of dissolving the SNTE.
I know parents. Mexican parents from a small geographical region but from a broad range of social classes and educational backgrounds. My colleagues (university professors), my neighbors (mostly university graduates), my inlaws (mostly secundaria graduates). And they ALL care about their childrens education and they all want it to be better than it is. But few know what to do about it. |
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Samantha

Joined: 25 Oct 2003 Posts: 2038 Location: Mexican Riviera
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Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 7:20 pm Post subject: |
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Teresa wrote:
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And even if it were true, in grand part, it would be well-deserved. My husband has a business in a touristy area of the city and you wouldn�t believe the crap Americans feel free to say because the think no one understands English. And even so, they are treated with courtesy - far more courtesy than they deserve. |
Good point. I wonder what it is that makes people leave their manners behind when they cross the border. Foreigners truly do and say things here that they would never do at home. A friend was telling me when they were having work done, the front door was open so that the workmen could haul things in and out to the back yard (no side yard). She came down the stairs to find some tourists wandering around in her living room. She said sarcastically "may I help you?". "No, we are just looking around". Since then I have seen it personally. We were visiting friends, just saying goodbye when in walked these people off the street wanting to look around the house. I highly doubt they would do that back in Canada or the USA. I think there would be good money in home tours here, no matter what the houses are like. There seems to be this weird curiosity about how people live. Another business opportunity. Hire Suegra to make lunch for them, and everyone wins!  |
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Isla Guapa
Joined: 19 Apr 2010 Posts: 1520 Location: Mexico City o sea La Gran Manzana Mexicana
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Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 7:26 pm Post subject: |
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Amazing tales, Samantha, about the rudeness of some types of tourists! Did it happen partly because they were vacationing in a touristy city or town? Maybe they thought they thought they were in a theme park of typical Mexican homes . I can't see that happening in Mexico City, though. In any event, it's lucky for me I live on the 4th floor of a building with a front door that's always locked. |
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Samantha

Joined: 25 Oct 2003 Posts: 2038 Location: Mexican Riviera
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Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 7:43 pm Post subject: |
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It's the Historico area of the city, and I think it appears to visitors as one big museum. We see them looking in house windows and yards all the time. The day trippers off cruise ships are inclined to do that kind of thing. They skip formal tours and set out on their own self-guided sight-seeing adventure in "real Mexico" (how visitors often refer to the downtown area).
To get the thread back on track a bit, when I taught in that area, I used to turn the tables on the cruise ship escapees, and take my English class over to the pier where we would stalk them for conversation practice. It helped the students get over their fear of speaking to strangers in English, and gave the tourists a new experience. They loved it (the tourists, not the students). |
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Isla Guapa
Joined: 19 Apr 2010 Posts: 1520 Location: Mexico City o sea La Gran Manzana Mexicana
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Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 7:53 pm Post subject: |
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Samantha wrote: |
To get the thread back on track a bit, when I taught in that area, I used to turn the tables on the cruise ship escapees, and take my English class over to the pier where we would stalk them for conversation practice. It helped the students get over their fear of speaking to strangers in English, and gave the tourists a new experience. They loved it (the tourists, not the students). |
What a great teaching tactic! It's nice that the tourists liked meeting real live Mexicans, but why didn't the students enjoy this chance to speak to real live native English speakers? The fear factor? |
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Isla Guapa
Joined: 19 Apr 2010 Posts: 1520 Location: Mexico City o sea La Gran Manzana Mexicana
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Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 7:57 pm Post subject: |
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Samantha wrote: |
It's the Historico area of the city, and I think it appears to visitors as one big museum. We see them looking in house windows and yards all the time. The day trippers off cruise ships are inclined to do that kind of thing. They skip formal tours and set out on their own self-guided sight-seeing adventure in "real Mexico" (how visitors often refer to the downtown area).
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When visiting the old areas of cities in Spain and Mexico, I will admit to sometimes giving a quick glance into gated gardens or at open windows, but I can't conceive of actually walking into a stranger's house! |
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Samantha

Joined: 25 Oct 2003 Posts: 2038 Location: Mexican Riviera
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Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 8:00 pm Post subject: |
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Most of them had no real contact with foreigners, so they were quite frightened. I had to do a lot of coaching to get cooperation. They would try to hide behind me, like little kids do behind a parent. I would then remind them that we could be back in the classroom, maybe taking a quiz. That usually did the trick. |
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Guy Courchesne

Joined: 10 Mar 2003 Posts: 9650 Location: Mexico City
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Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 8:04 pm Post subject: |
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Isla Guapa wrote: |
Samantha wrote: |
It's the Historico area of the city, and I think it appears to visitors as one big museum. We see them looking in house windows and yards all the time. The day trippers off cruise ships are inclined to do that kind of thing. They skip formal tours and set out on their own self-guided sight-seeing adventure in "real Mexico" (how visitors often refer to the downtown area).
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When visiting the old areas of cities in Spain and Mexico, I will admit to sometimes giving a quick glance into gated gardens or at open windows, but I can't conceive of actually walking into a stranger's house! |
I admit I peer into gardens and through gates all the time in Mexico City. I wander into buildings in the centro historico all the time too. In October last year a Mexican friend and I were downtown and wandered into a building that turned out to be a large home where a party was going on. We were offered drinks and ended up staying a few hours!
but...I am off topic now. Excuse me.. |
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Isla Guapa
Joined: 19 Apr 2010 Posts: 1520 Location: Mexico City o sea La Gran Manzana Mexicana
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Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 8:20 pm Post subject: |
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Samantha wrote: |
Most of them had no real contact with foreigners, so they were quite frightened. I had to do a lot of coaching to get cooperation. They would try to hide behind me, like little kids do behind a parent. I would then remind them that we could be back in the classroom, maybe taking a quiz. That usually did the trick. |
Wow, I'm surprised to hear that they were "quite frightened". Were they children or teenagers or adults? Just wondering . . . |
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Samantha

Joined: 25 Oct 2003 Posts: 2038 Location: Mexican Riviera
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Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 8:26 pm Post subject: |
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They were young adults studying to be English teachers. I took every opportunity I could to get them out of the classroom to speak to native English speakers. It was against school policy and I had to get special permission. |
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fieldsofbarley
Joined: 12 Nov 2010 Posts: 47 Location: Mexico City
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Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 9:16 pm Post subject: |
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I agree with Teresa in that the ad is most likely aimed to Mexican teachers and not to foreigners. I very much doubt that a foreigner with the qualifications requested would agree to work for $50/hour, especially in Mexico City.
I�d like to know who the employer is. Non-descript schools I�ve had the "pleasure" to visit employed Mexican teachers who were earning even below $50/hour and, no offense, some of my advanced students had a better level of English than those teachers. I guess you get what you pay for, and this goes for employers too.
Regarding those anti-American attitudes and the lack of interest in learning languages...well, that�s not my experience so far. |
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Enigma2011
Joined: 28 Dec 2010 Posts: 60
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Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 5:33 am Post subject: |
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TeresaLopez wrote: |
Just to put things in perspective, as a US certified teacher with a degree in Education, I made the princely sum of $12,500 yearly |
And when were you teaching in the States Teresa? 1970??? How OLD is your UNDERgrad degree?? 1970?? In Texas if one is STATE CERTIFIED and is a holder of an ADVANCED degree like a MASTERS,one can make MUCH MORE than what you mentioned above.
Those must be 1970 wages. If you have a MASTERS DEGREE and are STATE CERTIFIED, THEN you can make some money teaching. But there are STANDARDS...STATE CERTIFICATION and having a MASTERS is tough and if one can't or don't have the motivation to do that, there's always...well, we all know the answer. |
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