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seklarwia
Joined: 20 Jan 2009
Posts: 1546
Location: Monkey onsen, Nagano
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 Posted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 10:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Mr_Monkey wrote: |
| To be honest, unless you are shipping lots of stuff and have to give notice on a job, empty a house and move out of it, I see no reason why one month's notice is that big a deal. It's not a lot of time, sure, but how much time do you really need? |
Because they are potentially looking at as little as a couple of weeks notice.
Because they are not going to know if they even have a job until probably less than a month before they move so won't be able to give proper notice on their current job, etc. (I notice GEOS kindly told you that you were hired 2.5 months before you were due to arrive so you had far more than a month to get your things in order)
Because they will not be able to get their COE processed in less than a month and will likely end up working illegally.
Because, as some who has experienced moving to many foreign countries I can assure you, shipping aside; most singles would need to know that they were hired at least a month in advance to get things in order if they were unemployed, even longer if they need to obtain visas and longer still if they currently have any commitments to an employer, friends/family, etc.
Because if they won't know if they even have a job until less than a month before they are to move, they then have to face the dilema about whether they should be forking out substantial amounts of potentially wasted money to attend other interviews when they should be saving up in preparation for setting up in Japan (which we all know is often a rather costly thing to do).
Because if they are not going to start the ball rolling at all on anything until they get confirmation with the BOE, then they will likely not only not have a visa, but they may not even have a proper place to live organised for their arrival and have little time to find one before they are supposed to start working meaning no time to settle in and orientate themselves before being thrust into working (illegally)... those levels of stress could break a person.
Aren't you being more than a little unfair in your judgement? I think these guys deserve some sympathy because moving to a foreign country is rarely stress free for any of us (even if when we are familiar with the language and culture) and it will likely prove far worse for those who are not finding out until the very last minute if they have a job or not since most of us overseas recruits normally find out a couple of months in advance that we have a job and are able to make educated guesses about when we will be moving and prepare appropriately. |
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Mr_Monkey
Joined: 11 Mar 2009
Posts: 661
Location: Kyuuuuuushuuuuuuu
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| Posted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 11:06 pm Post subject: |
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Because we can all be unfair.
Because life isn't fair.
Because I'm not very good at sympathy.
Because I believe that if you want to do something, do it and don't ask for others' hearts to bleed out while you're at it.
The only thing I would have a problem with is the illegality of working under a tourist visa. Again, if inuzuki wants to do that, I have no sympathy for them should they face legal issues that they can't address.
The way I see situations such as these is: you make your bed, you lie in it.
Sorry, I just find it difficult to be sympathetic towards people prepared to work for arseholes. |
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inuzuki8605
Joined: 01 Dec 2010
Posts: 98
Location: America
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| Posted: Sat Jan 15, 2011 12:11 am Post subject: |
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| Mr_Monkey wrote: |
Because we can all be unfair.
Because life isn't fair.
Because I'm not very good at sympathy.
Because I believe that if you want to do something, do it and don't ask for others' hearts to bleed out while you're at it.
The only thing I would have a problem with is the illegality of working under a tourist visa. Again, if inuzuki wants to do that, I have no sympathy for them should they face legal issues that they can't address.
The way I see situations such as these is: you make your bed, you lie in it.
Sorry, I just find it difficult to be sympathetic towards people prepared to work for arseholes. |
Hmmm..... I'm having a hard time remembering when the He!! I asked for your sympathy or anyone else's, Mr. Monkey. And I don't remember saying that I was or WANTED to work for a company that wanted me to come over and work illegally. I remember saying that I DIDN"T want to do that. Or did you not read what I wrote before you started with your pointless rant about stuff that doesn't matter.
You didn't even know that I had lived in Japan for a year and I spoke the language, which I said one of my posts before. Are you here to start drama or add knowledge to the thread? No one really cares for your sympathy, or the lack there of, I will survive, trust me. So can we get back on topic here. Thank you. ^_^
Last edited by inuzuki8605 on Sat Jan 15, 2011 12:20 am; edited 1 time in total |
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inuzuki8605
Joined: 01 Dec 2010
Posts: 98
Location: America
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| Posted: Sat Jan 15, 2011 12:19 am Post subject: |
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| seklarwia wrote: |
| Mr_Monkey wrote: |
| To be honest, unless you are shipping lots of stuff and have to give notice on a job, empty a house and move out of it, I see no reason why one month's notice is that big a deal. It's not a lot of time, sure, but how much time do you really need? |
Because they are potentially looking at as little as a couple of weeks notice.
Because they are not going to know if they even have a job until probably less than a month before they move so won't be able to give proper notice on their current job, etc. (I notice GEOS kindly told you that you were hired 2.5 months before you were due to arrive so you had far more than a month to get your things in order)
Because they will not be able to get their COE processed in less than a month and will likely end up working illegally.
Because, as some who has experienced moving to many foreign countries I can assure you, shipping aside; most singles would need to know that they were hired at least a month in advance to get things in order if they were unemployed, even longer if they need to obtain visas and longer still if they currently have any commitments to an employer, friends/family, etc.
Because if they won't know if they even have a job until less than a month before they are to move, they then have to face the dilema about whether they should be forking out substantial amounts of potentially wasted money to attend other interviews when they should be saving up in preparation for setting up in Japan (which we all know is often a rather costly thing to do).
Because if they are not going to start the ball rolling at all on anything until they get confirmation with the BOE, then they will likely not only not have a visa, but they may not even have a proper place to live organised for their arrival and have little time to find one before they are supposed to start working meaning no time to settle in and orientate themselves before being thrust into working (illegally)... those levels of stress could break a person.
Aren't you being more than a little unfair in your judgement? I think these guys deserve some sympathy because moving to a foreign country is rarely stress free for any of us (even if when we are familiar with the language and culture) and it will likely prove far worse for those who are not finding out until the very last minute if they have a job or not since most of us overseas recruits normally find out a couple of months in advance that we have a job and are able to make educated guesses about when we will be moving and prepare appropriately. |
I do agree with this. Unless you are living alone with no life and no responsibilities, you need more than less than I month to make ready to leave the country. (I do know that it won't be completely stress free.... at all. no matter how it happens, haha.) I have a lot to take care of but my truest issue is working illegally even if it is just a short while. It's not a good idea and a lot can go wrong. I love Japan too much to be banned, haha. ^_^
I think I am going to bite the bullet and go on the other interviews. They are also good companies I've heard and I would be able to leave later too, which is good. |
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Mr_Monkey
Joined: 11 Mar 2009
Posts: 661
Location: Kyuuuuuushuuuuuuu
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| Posted: Sat Jan 15, 2011 10:04 am Post subject: |
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I'm not attacking you at all, inuzukui - you go for it!
Last edited by Mr_Monkey on Mon Jan 17, 2011 1:23 am; edited 1 time in total |
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stargazer_lita
Joined: 14 Jan 2011
Posts: 2
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| Posted: Mon Jan 17, 2011 12:49 am Post subject: Joytalk & visas |
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Hi Inuzuki! 
I applied and interviewed with Joytalk last week. They told me they are still negotiating contracts with boards of education but should have most jobs settled by the first week of February. Some people of course won't know until the end of February. They would want everyone to be there in mid-late March for 5 days of group training. It is possible some people won't receive placements until they are at training. Other ALT companies such as Borderlink and Interact do this as well.
It is illegal to work in Japan without a visa, but it is not illegal to work in Japan if they are processing your visa. No worries, if they hire you they�ll get you a visa since they would be in more trouble with the government than you would if caught.
I am still applying with other companies as well because I personally need more warning than a month to prepare. However, I am going to keep Joytalk as a backup because it would be nice to be back in Japan when the sakura are in bloom. ^_^
Good luck! |
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flyer
Joined: 16 May 2003
Posts: 539
Location: Sapporo Japan
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| Posted: Mon Jan 17, 2011 1:24 am Post subject: |
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Yes, good luck
It seems that Joytalk are one of the better dispatch companies (??)
and anyway, often its the actual BOE that determines most of your everyday stuff not the dispatch company |
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inuzuki8605
Joined: 01 Dec 2010
Posts: 98
Location: America
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| Posted: Mon Jan 17, 2011 4:09 am Post subject: |
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Thanks a lot guys! I am definitely hoping that I get that one, but I to am making plans to do more interviews just in case. I don't mind getting my placement later or when I get there, and I'm happy to hear that I wouldn't be getting in trouble working while my visa is being process. Gosh, being in Japan during the Sakura season would be awesome! I came at the tail end of it last time I was in Japan.
P.S. It's all good Mr.Monkey!! |
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seklarwia
Joined: 20 Jan 2009
Posts: 1546
Location: Monkey onsen, Nagano
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| Posted: Mon Jan 17, 2011 11:26 am Post subject: Re: Joytalk & visas |
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| stargazer_lita wrote: |
| It is illegal to work in Japan without a visa, but it is not illegal to work in Japan if they are processing your visa. |
Umm... working whilst the visa is being processed may be acceptable, but I don't think that means working whilst your COE is being processed (this is the long part that can take 8 weeks) is legal in the slightest. |
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inuzuki8605
Joined: 01 Dec 2010
Posts: 98
Location: America
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| Posted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 2:35 pm Post subject: Re: Joytalk & visas |
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| seklarwia wrote: |
| stargazer_lita wrote: |
| It is illegal to work in Japan without a visa, but it is not illegal to work in Japan if they are processing your visa. |
Umm... working whilst the visa is being processed may be acceptable, but I don't think that means working whilst your COE is being processed (this is the long part that can take 8 weeks) is legal in the slightest. |
Has anyone had this experience before with Joytalk or any other company? Does anyone know for sure if it's illegal or not?
This would be good info. |
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stargazer_lita
Joined: 14 Jan 2011
Posts: 2
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seklarwia
Joined: 20 Jan 2009
Posts: 1546
Location: Monkey onsen, Nagano
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| Posted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 10:08 am Post subject: |
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| stargazer_lita wrote: |
You can check out the many forums on places like Gaijinpot that say that you can move there while the COE is being processed or even change from a tourist to working visa in Japan if you wanted. It's pretty common.  |
Again I umm... You can move here on a tourist visa whilst they process your COE (so long as you don't tell airport immigration that that is what you are doing). You can probably then work whilst they change the COE into the stamp in your passport (which people have been allowed to do in country for years) because you having a COE is proof that Japanese immigration has confirmed that you are eligible for a working visa.
What I do not believe is allowed is for you to work whilst they are processing your COE. And unless the COE process has been started prior to the month notice they give, there is a possibility that that you may not have it in time for the beginning of your job (unless you are hanging around for up to 2 month after you arrive without working). Mine took about 6 weeks... that didn't matter for me since mine was processed and sent to me before I arrived in Japan. But if a company brings people here and only starts the process just before their arrival or even after, what happens if the COE process takes that length of time or longer?
The person you know got their visa in time... in time for what? Their first day of work? Or before their tourist status expired? There is a huge difference. Even though there are more than a few ALTs who have been forced to start work whilst still waiting on their COEs (I read posts about Heart doing this as standard practice back around when I was looking for job; I don't know if this still holds true today), it doesn't make it okay and of course there are those poor few who get completely screwed when it turns out that their company had been lying about starting the process at all.
| Quote: |
| Any ALT company that wants to continue to gain and retain contracts with school boards will follow the law. It's in their interest. |
So why is the General Union constantly fighting for the legal rights of dispatch ALTs? And why do they occassionally win?
Why are there so many ALTs out here not enrolled in Shakai Hoken despite being required by their company to stay in school for far more than the 29.5 hours that dispatchers use as their escape from co-payments?
Why are there ALTs who have been working under temporary contracts for many years for the same BOE, when that BOE should have offered them a direct hire position after only three?
Why are there so many ALTs with contracts full of illegal clauses such as 3 months notice and fixed penalties?...
... and so on and so forth.
Many dispatchers are breaking the law. They manage to keep their contracts because these laws are not properly policed by the government and the BOEs are often looking for convenience, to save money and/or the ability to hire (and fire) at the drop of the hat that dispatchers can offer.
There are more than a few of us that are satisfied with our conditions with our dispatchers, but that is often simply because they pay a fair salary, they don't find loads of ways to cheat us out of what we were promised and they don't make our lives a living hell. Unfortunately, there are many dispatch ALTs who only wish that they could say the same.
Need a good example of a dispatch company that has been around for years despite a large array of extremely dodgey practices? You need look no further than good ol' RCS. I would have named Heart, but I hear they have had some very recent legal action taken against them and I am unsure whether they still pull their visa stunt. |
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flyer
Joined: 16 May 2003
Posts: 539
Location: Sapporo Japan
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| Posted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 8:01 am Post subject: |
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| Have you got your placements yet? (actual location) |
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inuzuki8605
Joined: 01 Dec 2010
Posts: 98
Location: America
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| Posted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 2:17 pm Post subject: |
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| flyer wrote: |
| Have you got your placements yet? (actual location) |
Hey! I was actually just about to post. I got the job!!!! ^_^ *happy dance* And I didn't even have to wait until February to find out!
They are not completely set on the placement but the job that they are looking at for me in about an hour from Tokyo which is totally fine with me because i didn't want to live in the city just close to it. I'll be working with elementary kids with a minimum salary of 230,000 yen a month (that could go up if the position changes but it won't go down)
They listen to what you want in the interview (I wanted to work with the smaller kids and I wouldn't take less than 230,000 yen) so please just be honest with them when they ask you what your preferences are. ^_^
Good luck to everyone who interviewed! See you in Japan!! |
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Glenski
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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| Posted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 9:57 pm Post subject: |
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Working while your COE is in progress is something that many people have reported doing. I think it is technically illegal, since there is no guarantee that a visa will be granted. Bear this in mind, though:
You will probably not be paid full wages until you get the visa.
If you are caught, you may face severe penalties. Case by case.
Just because "everyone does it" does not mean it is safe or ok. Discuss with an employer the need to get the visa in hand before you set foot in the classroom. Some employers are desperate for legitimate reasons and some for illegitimate ones. Keep your eyes open. There are cases where people are hired and rushed here, and then lied to about the status of their COE, until the teacher has been used up by the employer past his tourist stay, then kicked out without a final paycheck and no legal recourse to complain to anyone because they are an illegal overstayer. I'm not saying this applies to Joytalk, just pointing out a potential problem with some visa processing and disreputable employers. |
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