Job Discussion Forums

[wildgander]

The company that has hired me to teach at some schools is having trouble getting qualified teachers to actually show up to teach. It appears China has developed an unfavorable reputation. My company has asked me to help develop a good recruiting policy.

We need to know what makes foreign teachers feel comfortable about the company that is offering them the job. What assurances are important and what kind of job support and living situation teachers are seeking.

I would like to hear from anyone who has experience and could refer me to materials or sources or speak from their own knowledge of this situation.

Please ask me any clarifying questions as I wasn't sure how much detail to go into in this initial post.

[cam]

If your employer wants qualified teachers then he/she has to be willing to offer a decent salary (anything less than 8000 RMB per month is unacceptable), other benefits such as health insurance, return tickets, a couple months paid vacation, and above all suitable accommadation. This means a flat that has adequate AC in summer and heating in winter.

[randyj]

In my opinion, the most comforting factor you can use to assure a prospective teacher is a number of past and/or present teachers who extol the virtues of the school.

[Kysorb]

Things I look for.

1) Housing - if living in social housing back in Canada is an upgrade to my foreign digs, nay I wont be there long.

2) Salary - A guy has to eat, drink, and be merry. He also has to have something to show for his work at the end of the year

3) School Size - If I'm moving to a foreign country I want at least 5-10 foreign colleges who i can force into being my friend and I theirs.

4) Good reviews or at least been open for several years with no negative reviews. (It is also good to broadcast the fact of how many teachers actually renew their contracts, it says alot about the place)

4) Location
5) Location
6) Location

7) Talking to current teachers

Friendly website with lots of pictures. Not pictures of an empty school. Pictures that show the history of the school with real kids/teachers in them. Don't confuse this with a bunch of photos all posed with forced smiles.

9) Talk more about the things we can do in China, and not just things like KTV. Westerners (or at least myself) like to fish, play video games, and take pictures of sculpted rocks.

10) It is important that you respond to all my questions quickly and fully. I myself hate recruiters because it seems like a chore to get responses from them.

[flyingscotsman]

Chinese schools are fickle about too many things. Horrible about answering questions or responding to inquires, often in the middle of a live chat they just leave the conversation.

And so often they turn you off by bargaining over salary or things that should be included in the package. Even in face to face interviews once you get there they try to lower the salary or make you work too hard for a level salary.

Plus Chinese schools are notorious for trying to save some money by giving you an offer and then hiring someone else to save 500 y a month at the last minute.

And the honesty factor is a big thing. Chinese just don't know how to be honest.

[Vaporate]

Well, teachers need to be at ease with regards to paying a �500 airline ticket to China, from UK, knowing they will be treated fairly.

Teachers need to know that they will not be messed around with on arrival. It takes alot of guts to just 'pack and go' thousands of miles abroad. Thus need alot of assurances from the school.

Wages on time, decent materials, fair accommodation are strictly basics.

[The Great Wall of Whiner]

You talk about qualified.

Well, OK. Here is me on my soap box:


What does China offer that Taiwan/South Korea/Japan/other places do not?

What does your school offer that other schools in China do not?

If you want me to work for 6,000 RMB a month for 30 hours a week, and expect me to have a university degree and two years' of experience, goodbye.

I can trot off to Shenzhen and make 18,000 RMB a month. I can hit up Shanghai, Beijing, or many many other places for much more money.

And, I KNOW how much my school makes vs. how much I make. I worked in the same school for over 6 years and I have been paid "all right" by today's standards compared to most others.

But now, I see even on Dave's Job Board, jobs with promises of over 10,000 a month. Explain to prospective teachers why they should work for 6,000 a month when they can double that.

China is not cheap anymore. The prices of everything are going up so fast it's not even funny. 30% inflation on many things.

I'm leaving China soon partly because of workload compared to salary unless I find a more decent job.

[A'Moo]

Still at a loss as to why many of us compare salaries monthly, when hours range from 50-200 etc..
Best to average it out and talk renumeration at an hourly rate.
To the OP's school, personally, anything below 100y/hr with free accom-end of interview.

[mike w]

The most important things?

1. The school is legally entitled to hire foreigners.

2. The school is able to sponsor the correct visa, and the change to RP, and sponsor the FEC.

3. With regards to 2, the school knows what it is doing.

4. This one may be a pipedream - NO LIES!

[Beyond1984]

"The company that has hired me to teach at some [italics mine]schools is having trouble getting qualified teachers to actually show up..." -wildgander

Personally, I like walking or taking a short bus ride to one school, where I am provided with a classroom and office.

Some recruiting companies try to find those willing to teach a class or two at schools X, Y, Z, with no office or permanent classroom, and no compensation for travel between work sites.

These teachers are usually equipped with a small cart loaded with books that they trundle, pathetically, from classroom to classroom.

It's not surprising that few teachers, other than yourself, find such a prospect enticing.

-HDT

[xi.gua]

Salary? Well, depends on where your schools are located. If you're going to Beijing yeah, you need to offer a high salary. But if you're teaching in some podunk town with population 100k then getting paid 5k will give you the life of a king. It's relative.

For me, I want SUPPORT. Obviously salaries, decent living conditions etc is important, but if i'm working for a recruiter or an agency I want to know that when I go off to my school on my own that they still have my back should something go wrong. I know a lot of recruiters just dump you off with best wishes and then you never hear from them again. When I worked for a recruiter I was in constant communication with the boss. He had my back, if I had a major problem, he got it fixed when the school wouldn't fix it. If the school STILL wouldn't fix it, he would get me another school. Sure it's inconvenient and it never came to that but the option was there. That's what I liked and it's a very reputable agency because of their support.

[TexasHighway]

Well, I never use recruiters myself, but the first question I would ask is "what can you do for me that I can't do for yourself". Recruiters that provided continued support after hiring are as good as gold (and as rare too). The most important factors to me are honesty and forthrightness. The devil is in the details. Is the housing a nice plush three room apartment just for me or is it a broom closet shared with a whiny alcoholic FT. Don't just tell me classroom hours...what are my other obligations as far as office hours, staff meetings, English corners, and speech contests I will have to judge. Lay it all on the table and tell me the whole picture. If I really like it, I may stick around for a while.

[Non Sequitur]

Can OP clarify if the recruiter acts for public schools and universities/colleges or for private language schools?
My feeling is that salary is less negotiable in the public area.
My checklist would be:
1. State that recruiter acts for both public and private employers and ask applicant if he/she would like to be considered for either or both types of roles.
2. State location of accommodation and classrooms. If all on campus - great, but if travel involved what seems like a day of light duties can be a whole day of commitment.
3. Who pays utilities? All paid by school?. Paid up to a certain usage level or teacher paid? This includes internet.
4. Whether accom is single occupancy or shared? Any curfews?
5. Is the winter break on full pay, no pay or part pay? When is winter break pay paid? Paid before the holiday starts, after holiday or put in your bank account so you can access it away from campus?
6. Can classes be moved to allow a long weekend to be taken from time-to-time?
7. Access to subsidised student or staff-only cafetarias?
8. Committment to allow direct contact with school before contract signed. This doesn't mean the applicant is trying to exclude the agent - in my view they are entitled to their finders fee. What it does mean is that there is the chance for the applicant to verify what the agent has been saying. A former or current teacher is best contact here.

[wildgander]

All of your responses have been helpful. I have a degree and experience in business in the United States and am rather surprised at the state of things in China.

I think my employers want to run a good business but they don't understand how differently education is done in the US than here. I am still trying to understand how and why things are done here and how to bring improvements to this business.

This isn't a simple recruiter or school model. Rather, we contract with schools and provide teachers and curriculum. They are wanting to provide a high level of education and are needing to understand how to attract and keep excellent teachers.

I am trying to understand how to communicate to them what is necessary. What kinds of accommodations native English speakers from the US, Canada, etc. are going to require to commit to teaching in China.

Those of you who have experience in China could you share any insights or experience you've had communicating with the Chinese regarding western teaching and employment models?

Again, I thank everyone for contributing as it is helping me get a bigger picture and may hopeful provide some convincing information for my employers.

Wildgander

[auchtermuchty]