Job Discussion Forums

[shmooj]

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I stand behind what I said. It takes several hundreds dollars to apply for and process a work visa. I have been involved with this directly and I know. It takes a lot of time and administration. Companies that sponsor people must file extremely detailed annual reports with the government. It all costs money

And what about the week's worth of training most of them provide- you totally ignored that. Also a company must guarantee a minimum 250,000 yen to get the visa- so the big companies actually help keep salaries up.

Do the big companies do ANYTHING right in your world?

[Wolf]

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Funny how you guys all duck the main issue by quibbling over details.

It costs money to sponsor and bring someone over to Japan. People who take a job with the intent of skipping once they get over here are liars and they cost the sponsoring company money. It is lying and stealing and all of you who say that kind of conduct is OK are so hypocritical. Your big complaint against the big companies is they lie and steal and you are no better than they are.

You duck the issure entirely by arguing over whether it is thousands of dollars or hundreds of dollars.

Lying and stealing is lying and stealing- the amount doesn't matter.

[Wolf]

[shmooj]

Gimp, what you are posting is simply untrue and I'm replying in case anyone here is taken in by what you are writing. I worked for a company where, firsthand, I arranged sponsorship for 8 members of staff. We didn't pay anything other than a basic admin fee at immigration each time.

Training cost us next to nothing anyway because I ran the training courses as part of my salaried manager position. Training or not, I would have been paid the same.

Now if a company our size lacking a dedicated accountant and no finance department can do it for very little outlay, you can bet your bum that the big companies can do it. If Interac shells out hundreds of dollars in training and sponsorship they are quite simply more stupid than you had led me to believe. If it is the case then you are actually backing up claims that the bigger companies are less than efficient.

You might want to read back through all of my posts on this subject and note that I have never said anything against the big companies versus any other. Particular companies, including the one I worked for, have their strengths and weaknesses. Size is not an issue. We should deal with particulars here.

Here's another particular --> you are again wrong when you say that these companies need to offer 250K pcm in order to sponsor. They don't and many offer less than that.

After all, the way you worded it made it sound as if they were paying 250K pcm for nothing rather than paying someone to do a job i.e. to make a nice profit for the company which is what business is all about.

Here's something to rattle your chain: 95% (yeah I have hard data for this!) of eikaiwa are not schools - they are businesses and that is where they fail educationally.

[ChotoHen]

Gimp,

When I need your help, I'll ask for it. That question was not directed to you. I don't have time to sift through your "crusading" on behalf of what you think is right.

Anybody else,

Somebody out there has to have an answer for me. Any stories about runners from Interac following the receipt of a work visa?

Just like "I would never do this", you can put these stories in the third person.

Sorry if I offended anyone...I usually have morals, just not in the case of something as trivial as a work visa.

Thank you for your work. Mata ne

[Iwantmyrightsnow]

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Giving proper notice is a little different from "running" and "skipping."

Signing a one year contract with the idea of running or skipping out is neither ethical or moral. And when it costs someone time and money to process the visa, it amounts to theft. A work visa is not "trivial."

By the way, Mr. Chotohen, who are you to say who can or cannot give you advice? You asked a question on this website and anyone is free to answer. Is it OK for me to say anyone can reply to this posting except you? Who made you Dave's censor? Get real.

[shmooj]

Excellent post gimp. You finally avoided responding to anything I challenged you on.

NOW we're getting somewhere.

[[email protected]]

OK Mr. Shmooj, let's decide who is ducking the issue. First of all let's define the issue- my contention that it costs a lot of money for a company to sponsor teachers, and get them work visas and your contention that it is trivial.

Let's use Interac as an example- the company everyone seems to love to hate. Check out the April 16 postings on this website. Interac is recruiting in New Zealand, Australia, Britain, Canada and the U.S. They are going to 17 cities in fact. Now that's probably going to take at least a month and even if it's only one guy on the road that going to be several thousands of dollars. And it looks to me like Interac does this four or five times a year- I don't know for sure but I see their ads several times a year.

I checked with a friend of mine who used to work at Interac. Apparently there are 4 full-time people in the recruiting department who are backed up by some support staff. On top of their salaries, add to all this all the long distance telephone calls and correspondence to line up the interviews.

When these new teachers arrive in Japan they are given two or three paid days training and also put up in hotels- again paid for by Interac. Finally there is the paperwork associated with the actual visa. In addition, any compnay sponsoring work visas has a mountain of paperwork that has to be submitted to the goverment annually.

Now I can't really tell you what it all amounts to, but no one but a moron would say the cost is "trivial."

So anyone who says it's OK to lie to the recruiters and sign a one year contract with the idea of coming over here and, "skipping" or doing a "runner" to use their own words, is pretty immoral to say the least.

I'm waiting for your reply.

[Mike L.]

Gimp! Why is it do you think that crappy companies like Interac and Nova have to recruit overseas and spend all this money while quality companies don't?

Because people who've been here a while know better. We won't work for the likes Interac with their sub-standard contracts.

If you want quality you gotta pay for it.

These high costs you speak of could easily be recduced dramatically by offering better contracts, paying on time etc etc...

Thus they could reduce their turnover.

The best dispatch companies have little trouble or expense in recruiting because of what they have to offer.

Gimp as a side note do you know anything about the ownbers of Interac?

There used to be a guy who claimed on his web site that they were fervant mormans.

Anyways off to my favorite jazz bar. Have a good weekend!

[Wolf]

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I am responding to Mr. Chotohen who says it is fine to pull come over here and skip on a company. At least tow other people agreed and Mr. Shmooj insists that work visa don't cost a company anything.

Of course if you have a bad experience, then you can quit- that is not the main point here. Just don't tell me work visas cost nothing, or that it is OK to come over here with the express idea of quitting right off the bat.

By the way it is not only the big companies that recruit overseas- one of the best little conversation schools I know of basically refuses to hire locally because they think most of the teachers around here have too many bad habits.

Finally, I too have heard the owners of Interac are Mormon. But so what? I also would expect that many school owners are Buddhist or Shinto, or perhaps athiest. Again, so what- I don't get the point.

[shmooj]