Job Discussion Forums

[mrbuzz]

This has probably has been covered many times but the more I read, the more confused I am. I thought I had to have a FEC issued (the school gets it for me?) and a job offer before I could apply for a Z visa. But looking at some old posts it seems that some FT's get the FEC after getting the visa. I was planning to pick a couple of cities, come to China and look for a job. I thought that the a school would offer me a job (hopefully), get me the FEC, and then I would leave the country and apply for the Z visa. If I came to China in April for a couple of weeks would it be realistic to get it all done? (job, FEC, etc). Thanks for the patience with what is probably an old topic...

[Non Sequitur]

Any particular reason for not getting a job from offshore?
What would be the maximum time you would need to be away from China to get a visa after securing a promise of a job?
If I was employing, you would have to offer huge benefits to get me to wait more than a couple of weeks. That is unless it was holiday time.
No doubt other more experienced people will comment, but my understanding is converting a visitors visa in China, to any kind of work permission/visa is near impossible nowadays. Accordingly leaving and returning is the only option.

[mrbuzz]

Non Sequitur - From what you say it sounds like employers want to hire right away. I guess I was thinking that they make plans to hire for down the road at the start of a term. So if I was planning for a language mill-type job is it better to look for a job when I'm ready to start? I wanted to come to China and check the school and accommodations.

[igorG]

When is the FEC obtained? When you qualify is the answer. It may take a few days or a few weeks depending on varieties of circumstances. Keep in mind that in some cities such as for example Guangzhou (Canton), you'll have to pass the local foreign experts exam, which is written by the "local experts". So, you may have to swallow your pride and guess some of the fine questions' answers well. Then, do not question the questions or waste your time wondering why they are in the exam. And, do not mind the psychology test, which is to determine if you are mentally fit to work on mainland. Well, not every region on mainland is so picky about FTs and not every employer cares in the country. What they mostly care about around is that you demonstrate a loyalty to the employer and the country and so even a local employer may become a local expert on whether you qualify for the FEC or not.

[mrbuzz]

I am still confused....do I need to have the FEC first to get a Z visa?

[Non Sequitur]

Mr Buzz
I think the mills will be more likely to be interested in opportunistic hiring in mid semester if someone knocks on the door. At the low end of the food chain they may be happy to have you teach on your visitors visa.
This puts off the inevitable of entering the country legally which will likely involve going to HK or elsewhere to get a visa. I mentioned holiday time earlier and given your arrival date of April, the summer holiday isn't too far away. Public school colleges and universities are heavily recruiting in June for Sept start so there should be good pickings and being able to see you in the flesh is a huge plus at least for the public sector.
I tend to be somewhat conservative and my strategy would be to use the April-June time to front the FAOs at some of the colleges and unis asking about 1 Sept start. This will give you say 4000RMB pm with accom and airfare for under 20 hours class contact pw.
Then back fill with weekend or evening work with the language mills you were working for earlier.
Another advantage of the public sector is that your FAO will fix your FEC and Z issues and at some time after school starts you will have your stamped passport and FEC presented to you and you neither know nor care how it happened.
A public school may have sufficient guanxi to get you onto a legal basis without you having to leave the country. You can then continue with your mill work over their busy summer period.
The cream on the doughnut would be if your new public school apartment was made available to you as soon as it became vacant - say mid July.
Happened to me and remember the FAO wants to go on leave knowing he/she has the vacancies filled.

[xiaolongbaolaoxi]

While there are a lot of benefits for looking for a job once you are already in China, there is a major caveat, namely the demands/protocol that you may encounter. There was a school that I really liked, checked out well, checked with people who lived in the city, etc. When we finally spoke, they demanded that I make a 6 hour one way trip the next day to "meet the leaders" who were going on vacation late the next day. This was nonneogtiable on their part. Had I told them that I was either in the US or leaving China to return in two months, they would have not have cared about a face to face meeting. Another school demanded that I be able to teach lessons three hours away... that afternoon. If you are already in China, I would recommend looking for jobs in the city you are in.

Related: if someone tells you that an outlying city is "not far," that means a whole lot of nothing. Some people are used to four hour bus trips with multiple changes/transfers plus taxi rides once you get there. Ask for a time estimate (which I found to be always on the short side). My experience was that if I arrived with a local, they always had very different impressions than me in terms of warning signs. My wife hated a school I loved, and I later heard through the grapevine that she was right. Another FT was introduced by a [her uni] student, and things seemed to be going great, until the student called her the next day telling her to not accept the job because of the comments the employers were making in a dialect they didn't know she spoke. May not be practical in the OP's situation, but it is a nice reality check.

Although mills are not popular on this board, I did find that they were (understandably) nice during the hiring/interview process. Added bonus: got to meet FTs who told me the reality of the situation, which never happened with public/private schools/unis. Have the address of the school/meeting spot saved on your phone so you can show it to a taxi driver.

Although they would hopefully tell you ahead of time, I would recommend having a few lessons in your back pocket in case they spring something on you. For example, the principal stops the interview to have you teach the 20 3year olds right outside her door just after you told her you needed to leave soon....

Aloha,

XLB

[mrbuzz]

Non Sequitur - I was thinking language mills because I don't have a degree. I believe that if an employer met me they would want to hire me, but I don't know if a university could hire me. This gets into the whole topic of not having a degree. I could easily spend July and August looking for a job so that is not a problem. I've been to China several times and have lots of Chinese friends who go there every summer. I guess my real question is, is it realistic for me to find a decent job?

XLB - thanks for the advice.

[Non Sequitur]

Mr Buzz - re degree
It's a topic that has been well traversed with no conclusions that I can see.
I have a sort of associates level qual and an ESL qual.
Like you I'm my best advertisement.
Look at provincial level vocational colleges in 2nd level provincial cities. Qingdao and Dalian are two I've worked in and they are substantial places in their own right.
Being able to front up and having the time to get around the FAOs before they break for the summer is a plus.
This means going to a city where your lack of degree isn't so important at the outset.
If you get mill work, by the time you get to meet the college FAOs you will be a working teacher. If you are prepared to stay on at the mill on a weekend basis while teaching weekdays at your college then there may be some connection/favour that can be worked. One of the Chinese teachers I worked with at my last mill was an English major grad of a local uni. That kind of person - particularly if young and enthusiastic would be a mine of information about local public college and uni hiring. and of course you have your own network. PM me if you want.

[igorG]

[mrbuzz]

[igorG]

One day you may like that but the next day may just be your nightmare.

[mat chen]

It has been my experience here that the schools want to road test you before they give you the Z. Also it is supposed to be issued in your own country but there are people with connections who can go arround rules.
The Hong Kong route is changing daily. I was just there and I was only given a month visa.

[mrbuzz]