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jpvanderwerf2001
Joined: 02 Oct 2003
Posts: 1117
Location: New York
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 Posted: Wed Jan 26, 2011 10:40 pm Post subject: |
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| sileni wrote: |
i spent about two years in Ukraine (plus traveling in Russia), went from only being able to read Russian to being somewhat fluent, got a girlfriend, spent tons of time outside the capital in her town, and spent plenty of time bullshitting and drinking on park benches with all manners of local people, family parties, shashlyk sessions in the woods, etc. etc.
in my life i've never met such a saturated quantity of truly hardcore real people, one after the other, as with these folks. old ladies, young guys, working fathers, girls, teenagers, whatever.... totally open, curious folks who gave me tons of respect.
sure, there were some things that i could never get on board with: 10000 cigarettes a day, endless drinking, materialism, out-of-whack gender relations, rowdy behavior in public, etc. etc. but there are infinite number of things i take issue with back in the US.
there were sketchy things going on at my work - lots of people getting fired, lots of people complaining. i threw enough elbows and performed my ass off and eventually they would meet any of my demands within their capacity.
during all that time, i saw countless other expats come and go - some left the country vowing never to return. one even had a total nervous breakdown and her parents came and got her. a few others really regretted coming.... a lot of them got into stupid relationships.
the only common thread i noticed about all the people who crashed and burned were this:
1) inability to snap out of the western set of expectations (i.e. expecting someone to actually follow through with promises, or expecting a week to go by hassle-free, or planning something down to the minute without accounting for hiccups, or expecting someone to be nice to them American style just because you go up and ask them something)
2) didn't make any effort to learn the language well enough to have fun (i would've HATED it there without the language - it must SUCK to not know enough to have fun)
3) were turned off by the necessity of throwing elbows in order to get something
yeah, it's a messed up place - but we avoided the messed-up crap as much as possible and where we couldn't avoid it (delays, scowling shopkeepers, uncouth citizens) we just had a laugh.
i sound like some macho dickhead in this post but i assure you i'm not. my overall personality is a super goofy american smiley happy-go-lucky hippy type thing, at its default. i understand that it was frustrating for you to live there, but it sounded like your expectations were way off and you should've explored certain avenues instead of others.
i took it as a challenge and ukraine and russia changed my life for the better: gave me tons more confidence, gave me tons more people-managing skills (i.e. how to deal with people who clearly think you're full of shit), and gave me tons new perspectives. a lot of their habitual deception, rudeness in public, values etc. are coping mechanisms to make life better in a harsh-ass place. it's super important to understand the motivations for that, and then try and avoid being the target of them as much as possible. |
I think this is a great post, actually, sileni. However, it's not really a ringing endorsement for Russian/Ukrainian culture  |
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maruss
Joined: 18 Mar 2003
Posts: 1145
Location: Cyprus
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| Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 10:39 am Post subject: I'll second that! |
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The situation in the Ukraine is pretty awful from many aspects,including society,ethics and daily life,apart from a small elite who are mega-rich.
I will p.m. the guy who posted about it.
Cheers for now! |
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coledavis
Joined: 21 Jun 2003
Posts: 1838
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| Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 3:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Hey, I love those scowly shopkeepers! They suit this Brit down to the ground. In fact I used to frequent an old-fashioned shop just to get served by the scowliest. One day, I met a fellow Brit and brought him in just to evoke her most xenophobic super-scowl. Next time I came in, after months of hostility, she started to be friendly. Maybe she was afraid I'd import a lorry-load (US truckload) of us eccentric Englishmen if she didn't sue for peace. |
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jonniboy
Joined: 18 Jun 2006
Posts: 751
Location: Panama City, Panama
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| Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 7:22 pm Post subject: Re: Other 'no-no's' |
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| maruss wrote: |
| Whistling indoors or shaking hands over the threshold....I wonder how they originated? |
You forgot the putting money into people's hands = bad karma thing. On the fear of draughts/cold air thing it's bizarre and one of the cultural things here that I've had more difficulty adapting to. Last year an old granny on the bus seemed to be the point of thumping me with her handbag cos I opened the window, preferring the fresh air to the stink of sweaty bodies. Luckily I live in the centre so hardly ever use the public transport. To balance it up though, I love the fact that public transport here actually runs frequently and on time. I never got why smallish cities in the UK could never manage such a simple thing. |
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coledavis
Joined: 21 Jun 2003
Posts: 1838
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| Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 9:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Big Uk cities too; London's buses have only recently got their act together. |
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sileni
Joined: 28 Jul 2009
Posts: 4
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| Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2011 10:08 am Post subject: |
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| jpvanderwerf2001 wrote: |
I think this is a great post, actually, sileni. However, it's not really a ringing endorsement for Russian/Ukrainian culture |
yeah, true, hahaha.
but i think most natives over there would agree with any of the problems mentioned in this thread.... they just have learned to roll with the punches in an impressive way. out in public it's like a battle, but at home many of them are totally sensitive, romantic, and sophisticated people with highly nuanced (if a bit dry) senses of humor. you just have to pick up from them how to roll with it, and shine your light on the good spots like they do AND when they do, and the whole place will open up to you. you don't need to compromise your morals or integrity, just develop a surrogate set of guidelines for the time being.
but without the language - you'll always be a chump. and without forming any real friendships there you'll never, ever get a taste of the good stuff!
it's harder there than a million other places but all you have to do is accept it. |
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