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What do you do when they can't even repeat stuff?
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sharter



Joined: 25 Jun 2008
Posts: 878
Location: All over the place

PostPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2011 5:20 pm    Post subject: What do you do when they can't even repeat stuff? Reply with quote

I thought I'd seen it all, but no. Two days ago I got rushed into a class of adult beginners (having been told they were elementary) and they couldn't even repeat a choral drill. What then? Literacy classes is the obvious answer......but no joking aside....where's your EFL method that deals with that?-There were 22 of them, which didn't help and I was given no time to prepare.
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santi84



Joined: 14 Mar 2008
Posts: 1317
Location: under da sea

PostPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2011 6:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow. Where is this? I'm sure they could repeat after you, but it sounds like they are either shy or do not understand that you want them to repeat.
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Teacher in Rome



Joined: 09 Jul 2003
Posts: 1286

PostPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2011 6:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not sure I'd even start with a choral drill. Perhaps some very basic "My name is XX" to begin with, then see where to go from there. There's a lot you can do with some very limited vocabulary and structures which gets students producing language even at a zero level.
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johntpartee



Joined: 02 Mar 2010
Posts: 3258

PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2011 5:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
but it sounds like they are either shy or do not understand that you want them to repeat


I would think it was shyness if they were children, but adults? So it's possible they do not understand that you want them to repeat what you say. I had a similar problem (with children) and I would do a "one-man play". I would say something and then I would turn to myself and repeat it. Should work with adults as well.
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naturegirl321



Joined: 04 May 2003
Posts: 9041
Location: home sweet home

PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2011 5:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can they read and write? I know it might sound backwards, but I've found that many students can read and write, but not speak. Try having them read stuff. I've been in your shoes. My first class I taught I had about 5 students, one was an old man, maybe in his 70s, after the entire semester he could barely say ":My name is", but hey, you can't fault him for not trying.
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sharter



Joined: 25 Jun 2008
Posts: 878
Location: All over the place

PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2011 3:15 pm    Post subject: erm Reply with quote

They can't read or write. They are Libyan 20-year olds who have had 3 years of English at school. The drill was 'My name is.....' and that was part of a ball throwing game that worked with illiterate Kurds back in 1998. The choral drill was to build confidence. It's worked with every class I've ever taught. Please read my post-they can't read or write, so repetition/ a drill is where you have to start, following a lead in of course.....usually a cartoon on the board.

I believe TEFL techniques are inefficient with absolute beginners and I have more than a 5 years experience of teaching them in the Arab world plus 10 other years teaching pretty much everything and everyone.
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johntpartee



Joined: 02 Mar 2010
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2011 3:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have no experience with absolute beginner adults, but with children it has worked to have them count. Write out the numbers 1 through 10 (I'm assuming they use Arabic numerals [duh!]) and say them. Also, it sometimes helps to talk to each individual rather than the whole group, e.g, have one person from the class say a word or phrase and then go to the next person, etc. It's a start, something to get them talking.
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Glenski



Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN

PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 1:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If they studied English for 3 years and still can't read or write, you need to start with some basic reading & writing skills. However, don't make it the entire lesson, because that will make them feel inferior. Add the choral drills, but your failure raises a lot of questions.

1. Just how fast did you expect them to repeat the words?
2. Did you model it slowly enough for them? (I just gave a pronunciation lesson (2-hours) to 20 members of the Japanese Self-defense Forces, and their level of communication and pronunciation is low enough. I made sure to take something as important as pronunciation very slowly, explaining how the tongue, lips, and teeth are shaped, how to make individual sounds before doing whole words, pointing out words in a phrase (red leather, yellow leather) one by one and then slowly increasing the speed, etc.
3. Are they inhibited in doing things as individuals in front of a class of their peers (like Japanese are)? If so, have them do things in smaller groups instead.

It's up to students to learn from their mistakes, but it's also up to the teacher to teach them how, and to learn from the students' mistakes or weaknesses, too.
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Insubordination



Joined: 07 Nov 2007
Posts: 394
Location: Sydney

PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 2:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tough crowd. You're going to need so much patience, energy and creativity and a printer, but you are going to learn a lot. Are they literate in their own language? I hope so. Only show the utmost enthusiasm and convey that it is an exciting privilege to learn a foreign language. You can't achieve too much. See it as an 'orientation to English', which will help out their next teacher a lot.

As well as what Glenski has outlined above, go through a couple of letters a day (you can get tracing sheets online). Get the students to examine short words, practice writing them. Then to cover the word with their hands (or by turning over the paper) and copying the word from memory. Students are good at recognising whole words and can often do it before they can recognise the individual letters. It's surprising. Then put a sentence on the board with that word and get them to identify it.

Although it's not always appropriate and you should be careful, look on the websites for kindergarten teachers for phonics flash cards and so on.

Just doing reading and writing would be boring. Start with basic social conversations,realia, pictures of things, personal information (to be, to have), Can I have (a shop scenario), do you like, food/sport. There is/there are. If they love football, incorporate that somehow. Forget grammatical terms and repeat everything to give them success. You actually don't need much material, but it has to be good.

'Tis a pity you're not in Australia. We have loads of resources for 'True Beginners' learners, but it's not the kind of thing you generally find online.

This is certainly not my teaching approach, but it would give you some ideas: http://esl.about.com/od/teachingbeginners/a/ab_beg_intro.htm

ETA: I also used to demonstrate basic classroom commands. Knock on the board. Say repeat. Knock again. Pick up something, say 'repeat' and pick it up again. They understand what 'repeat' means after a couple of minutes and they will repeat after you. You need to revise this every lesson Also, teach them the words read/write/speak/Listen/turn over by demonstrating each of the actions.
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sharter



Joined: 25 Jun 2008
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Location: All over the place

PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 3:34 pm    Post subject: did it already Reply with quote

1-Modelled very slowly.
2-Forget writing on the board.
3-According to Arabic colleagues some have poor Arabic and numeracy skills.
4-22 wild Bedu basically.
5-No supplementary mats.
6-Teach them 5 hours a day, 6 days a week. on the 7th we only do 3 lessons in the morning.
7-Writing on the board is a no no right now.
8-Using the course book 'Basic English for Arabs' is out of the question due to 'imposed constraints'.

I've got loads of experience just never seen anything like it. I don't think EFL techniques/total immersion are/is good with such people. A day feels like a week I'll tell ya.
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Insubordination



Joined: 07 Nov 2007
Posts: 394
Location: Sydney

PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 12:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sounds extremely tough, but you're tackling it and will be a better teacher for it. Hopefully, it's only short-term. I only had my group like that for 2 hours at a time, twice a week. I think that's more appropriate. I feel a bit sorry for the students too. You need a bilingual assistant to facilitate your instructions. What do you mean 'imposed contraints'. I have an extremely basic text called 'The Literacy Workbook' in English and Arabic, but if they can't read Arabic....

Did a bit more googling of 'Absolute Beginners', but am not coming up with material/flashcards:


http://www.onestopenglish.com/support/ask-the-experts/methodology-questions/methodology-absolute-beginners/146386.article

http://www.ehow.com/how_2144872_teach-english-absolute-beginners.html

http://www.suite101.com/content/esl-teaching-strategies-absolute-beginners-a166750

Keep posting back. This will be very interesting for people who have to teach this type of class in the future.
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Big Poppa Pump



Joined: 28 May 2010
Posts: 167

PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 3:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

First I take a couple of deep breathes, then I remind myself that sometimes it might take awhile.

Skipping from activity to activity without giving any particular one time to stick with the students won't help much. Make a plan, stick with it for a bit, and soldier on.
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Glenski



Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN

PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 8:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you have them that long each day, you ought to be able to make significant progress.

Why is using the board a no-no?

22 wild Bedu?

Why no supplementary materials?
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Big Poppa Pump



Joined: 28 May 2010
Posts: 167

PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 8:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bedu-

http://mw4.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/bedu

My guess is he's saying they are a bit rowdy.
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sharter



Joined: 25 Jun 2008
Posts: 878
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 3:31 pm    Post subject: erm Reply with quote

Tiny classroom, 22 wild men, no English skills, many not interested, teaching at very short notice, no key for the photocopying room, no internet no supplementary mats, cassette player that isn't loud enough., not enough stationery.......got till November to get them to PET.....never happen.

A veritable rabble....22 Baldricks in one room; what are the chances of that?
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