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sigmoid
Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 1276
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 Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 4:21 am Post subject: |
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| Well stated, Sigmoid - but I know a LOT of people who have said "F--- the $1000USD for a work permit! 3 month visa-on-arrival, fly in-and-out, jack up my salary demands to cover this cost, and I'm staying!!!" so I have to believe that the economic situation in Europe and The U.S. plays at least a part in what's going on with layoffs and too many foreign teachers here. |
I see your point in regards to the role that the recession in the West plays in terms of increasing the pool of foreign teachers in VN.
But, I don't really understand though how "a LOT of people" can "jack up their salary demands" considering that the OP is talking about salary reductions and lay-off's and you also mention "too many foreign teachers here".
The usual "law" of supply and demand would suggest that most foreign teachers would have little to no leverage when attempting to negotiate. Salaries have been pretty much stagnant for several years. Please explain. |
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clifton10
Joined: 21 Mar 2010
Posts: 71
Location: Jakarta
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| Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 5:52 am Post subject: |
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CORRECTION: This what happens when you're not 30 years old anymore. Yes, I was working at the school that paid me $18/hour. Sorry!
I did apply to LL a few months back, but wasn't hired. Oh, well! Right now a flight across the desert to Turkey doesn't sound bad; and thanks for wishing me luck there. For everyone else, I hope the inflation problem is solved pretty soon, but I'm not an economic guru. |
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LettersAthruZ
Joined: 25 Apr 2010
Posts: 466
Location: North Viet Nam
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| Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 10:26 am Post subject: |
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[quote="sigmoid"]
| Quote: |
But, I don't really understand though how "a LOT of people" can "jack up their salary demands" considering that the OP is talking about salary reductions and lay-off's and you also mention "too many foreign teachers here".
The usual "law" of supply and demand would suggest that most foreign teachers would have little to no leverage when attempting to negotiate. Salaries have been pretty much stagnant for several years. Please explain. |
My point being that I beg to differ with you in that the "Immigration theatre" bulls--t that The Powers That Be here are pulling (and have been pulling since October 2009) IS NOT enough to scare a large number of teachers away [contrary to your statement of "a LOT of people have left over visa/work permit hassles, confusion, lack of transparency/clarity"] and that when these people have a choice between the major inconvenience of flying to Bangkok every threee months (not a fatal amount of money for paying for the airfare on a $14 - $18USD per hour salary) or facing thee severe stigma (in The States and Canada, anyways) of Unemployment or *shuddder* Welfare......I think a lot of people WILL and ARE staying here and I know of a few doing this who have spiked the rates they charge for privates and contract classes that they do in order to pay for those flights every three months.....
...albeit that this is now becoming more difficult to do, since there are (over the last couple of years) more Tay ESL instructors for the customer to choose from. A friend has told me that the parents of one of his tutors as balked at his latest fee increase and stated that she'll find anothe Tay tutor....so, yeah - it's a balancing act.
But all in all, I do NOT see the over-saturaturation of ESL teachers in HCMC and Ha Noi easing anytime soon.....unless there is another place out there like Thailand used to be 10 years ago or Viet Nam used to be five years ago!!  |
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sigmoid
Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 1276
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| Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 2:57 pm Post subject: |
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OK, yeah I see what you mean. Even if some are leaving, for every person that leaves there at least 3 more that show up. That makes sense.
And, yeah if you are well-established outside of the schools, you can name your price, or at least give it a try.
Hopefully though, the new arrivals will eventually reach a tipping point and drop off. |
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Vesuve
Joined: 18 Dec 2004
Posts: 28
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| Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2011 4:33 am Post subject: |
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| LettersAthruZ wrote: |
| Hyper-inflation.....as Sigmoid mentioned above, unchecked for the last five years, is THEE greatest single threat that the Viet Nam ESL industry faces right now. |
Prices are going up on everything, in particular food. It's not just the Pre-Tet bump in prices, either.
| Quote: |
Well stated, Sigmoid - but I know a LOT of people who have said "F--- the $1000USD for a work permit! 3 month visa-on-arrival, fly in-and-out, jack up my salary demands to cover this cost, and I'm staying!!!" |
I travel between HCMC and Hanoi frequently Letter AZ, and I have not met any teachers who have done this. Sure, those who do privates, or do direct corporate contracts can raise their prices. Some get the raise they ask for; some don't.
But as for schools, there have been no changes in wages to reflect the rising fixed expenses: Visa extensions, fly-in-fly out, lost work days, and food and accommodation while on these frequent visa runs.
I am happy at my place of employment, but I would not dare ask for a raise, knowing how many teachers we have on hand, scrimmaging for more hours. The schools' strategy (IMO) is to hire lots of part timers.
There is a steady stream of teachers to replace any teachers that leave.
The Influx:
In 2007 in Saigon we observed a natural steady influx of more and more teachers, and definitely by Spring of 08, after the global downturn.
Teacher saturation in Saigon.
Now, it's in Hanoi. Hanoi has been "discovered." Teachers from China coming to Hanoi, Uni grads that are unemployable from the West.
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so I have to believe that the economic situation in Europe and The U.S. plays at least a part in what's going on with layoffs and too many foreign teachers here. |
Agree. |
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LettersAthruZ
Joined: 25 Apr 2010
Posts: 466
Location: North Viet Nam
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| Posted: Fri Jan 28, 2011 11:01 am Post subject: |
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| Vesuve wrote: |
| I travel between HCMC and Hanoi frequently Letter AZ, and I have not met any teachers who have done this. Sure, those who do privates, or do direct corporate contracts can raise their prices. Some get the raise they ask for; some don't. |
Right right right! Sorry about that! Shoulda clarified that.....
Shoulda explained that most of these folks that I hang with do private contract classes with groups of parents, free-lance, tutors, etc. etc.....basically independents, if you will, who don't work for established centers. |
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persnickety
Joined: 07 Jan 2011
Posts: 2
Location: Turkey
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| Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 12:49 pm Post subject: |
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| clifton10 wrote: |
| I wish I could stay for three years as originally planned, but it looks as though I'll be flying off to Turkey in the next few months. The main reason being the traffic. |
I have to say the traffic isn't any better in Turkey, just more cars and fewer motorcycles. Also the schools are pretty terrible and mostly pay less (in dollars) than in Vietnam, with a really high cost of living. The visa situation is in a state of flux these days, making it very difficult to become and stay legal. They're trying to tighten up the visa rules, except that the police themselves don't really know what those rules are.
It's a fascinating country but don't expect an easier life! |
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clifton10
Joined: 21 Mar 2010
Posts: 71
Location: Jakarta
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| Posted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 9:04 am Post subject: |
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| Well, I did find one school that sounds like a professional organisation(or so I assume): EFINST. Also, life is never easy anywhere. Since I hope to be closer to places in the EU that my social life with woman would improve bigtime over what I'm experiencing right now in Nam |
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persnickety
Joined: 07 Jan 2011
Posts: 2
Location: Turkey
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| Posted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 9:20 am Post subject: EFINST |
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| Clifton, I don't want to pollute this forum with Istanbul gossip so PM me if you want to find out about EFINST. |
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