Job Discussion Forums

[rbos]

Hello,

I'm a newbie and this will be my first time teaching ESL. I'm still in the US, but I just got an offer from a school in Taiwan. But the hiring agent at the school says they would want me to work before the ARC permit gets processed, since it takes about a month for the ARC permit to get processed once I get the hospital evaluation and all the paperwork submitted to the authorities. But, I got the impression from the hiring agent at the school that teaching before the ARC gets processed is technically illegal.

For some people who teach in Taiwan, I realize they could probably care less about whether this is legal or illegal, but obeying the law is a matter of principle to me.

I wonder: #1 Is teaching before the ARC permit gets processed illegal like I think it is? #2) If it is illegal, is it technically legal for me to simply work as a volunteer for the school until they process my ARC permit, and then switch over to being paid from then on? I figure that volunteering might work for me since the school is offering free housing as a part of working for them.

However, that brings me to question #3, would receiving free housing in exchange for temporarily volunteering until the ARC permit goes through be legal or illegal (since technically housing is a form of compensation)?

[creztor]

It is illegal. Volunteering is also illegal, as a foreigner at least as I understand it.

rbos, if you want to live and work in Taiwan, then you need to accept that if you don't do illegal things you will most likely find life difficult at best. Schools will consider you a "trouble maker" if you don't work while the ARC is being processed etc, and they don't care about the legality of it or other similar issues.

Welcome to Taiwan.

[dangerousapple]

I think you should be commended for your beliefs.

That said, listen to creztor. The standard procedure here is to get hired and start working while your paperwork gets processed, which can take up to a month or more. Although illegal, it is how it is.

The Taiwanese view laws as somewhat...flexible, and the only way to make it here is to be flexible as well. You will have to decide for yourself how flexible you can be.

Don't volunteer for the school, because there isn't any reason for them to get you for free. They will love you for it, though.

[JZer]

[markcmc]

If your papers are being processed for a work visa you are extremely unlikely to have any problems with this. Don't let this stop you starting work - this is just the way things are done.

[rbos]

Thanks everyone for the suggestions. I'll definitely keep to my principles on this one; that's just how I am. But, I did get some very interesting feedback from the recruiter who had set me up with the job interview, when I responded to him with my concerns about working technically illegally before the ARC permit gets processed. He claims that in fact, I would NOT be working illegally.

He stated that, "As to the ARC, actually you can legally work while your work permit has been on the process since the labor office gets aware that it should take time to wait for the work permit issued and posted. After you get the work permit, you have to transfer your current visa (free landing visa or visitor visa) into resident visa and then apply for the ARC card. Merely the work permit has something to do with your legal working instead of the ARC. Arc is something to do with your legal stay in Taiwan."

As I'm very much a newbie, can anyone verify if this info. is accurate, or please enlighten me as to how I actually would be doing something illegal?

[JZer]

It sounds like your recruiter is esldewey!

[markcmc]

As far as I know what your recruiter said is correct [about working while you are processing the work visa] or if it is technically illegal nobody cares. I've done this many times and had no problems.

After you get your work permit, you need to apply for an ARC. I really don't think this situation is anything to worry about.

[dangerousapple]

What the recruiter said is mostly correct. You can't start working just because your school has mailed off the paperwork, but once the work permit is approved, it is safe to begin working, even before the permit is printed and mailed out. So technically speaking, you'd be working illegally for a few days or perhaps a week. It's possible (unlikely, but possible) that a labor bureau goon could inspect the school during that week, find you, and wet his pants, thinking he "got one!", but a phone call at that moment to the labor bureau would most likely show that you are legal. However, although not really a serious situation, working during this time is still a gray area.

Almost all cases of people being caught working illegally are due to the teachers themselves choosing to work illegally or the school being too inept or corrupt to file the paperwork properly. It is extremely rare to get in trouble just for starting to work during this time.

But you're right not to trust your recruiter; for the most part they do not have your best interests at heart.

[dangerousapple]

Whoops, double post.

[yamahuh]

[JZer]

[dangerousapple]

Again with the bribes. Please stop posting "everybody knows that blah blah blah is true in Taiwan", because if you haven't run a business here, then you don't know jack about doing business in Taiwan.

I have labor bureau inspectors, health inspectors, fire inspectors and public safety inspectors come in numerous times every year. For the most part they are professional and courteous, except for the local labor bureau inspector. The last time he came in, he made some offensive comments, and I blasted him for not showing my staff the respect they deserved, and then told him not to come back until he had learned some manners. By the time he left, he was backpedalling and apologizing and telling me not to take things so seriously.


When I set up my company, I was told very clearly not to offer any bribes to any inspectors, and for the first couple of years, the inspectors that came to my school all told me they could not accept bribes, even before they came into the school to do their job. They were terrified that they would get caught and go to prison!

These people are not looking for bribes.

In more than 10 years of running schools, I've had exactly one person try to ask me for a bribe. He was a drunken off-duty fire inspector who came swaggering in, saying he was going to shut us down if we didn't "pay a fine". I told him quite clearly to GTF out of my school before I called the cops, that I had taken down his license plate number and the ID number on his shirt, and that I expected to never see him again. And I never did.


And why would anyone pay the police a bribe? The police have absolutely nothing to do with enforcing bushiban and/or labor regulations. My only run-ins with the cops have been when they come by to complain about parents blocking traffic while waiting for their kids, or when we when call them about suspicious people lurking around the school.

Stop making comments based on how things might have been 20 years ago, because that ain't how it is now.

[markcmc]

I also owned a chain of schools in Taiwan, for over 8 years, and agree that school inspectors, fire safety inspectors etc do not ask for bribes. I have heard stories, that I have some reason to believe, that this still happens in one or two cases, but I think it's much rarer than before.

[yamahuh]