Job Discussion Forums

[BootOfTheBeast]

I've realised after some recent soul-searching that I want to/must stop messing about and get this career (another topic entirely) started in earnest. Ten hours of forum searching later, a little the wiser... I know it's tough to answer, but I'm going to ask anyway. Lots of old heads on here who must have a career choice regret or two, so what do you think, DELTA or MA? Both?

What I've gathered so far:
MA TESOL - Longer, more expensive, more theoretical. Good for uni jobs in the ME, western Europe, not worthwhile for central/eastern Europe, Asia I'm not really clear about. Other MAs may offer more in certain locations due to specific skills required in specific locations? MA App Ling for EAP in Europe?

DELTA - shorter if done full-time but hellish, cheaper, more practical than MA (?), good for language centre senior/management jobs all over the place, not good for uni gigs generally.

Sound about right?

Of course the crucial point is what do I want the qualification to do for me?
1) Become a better teacher in the classroom
2) Understand and address students' needs/problems
3) Open doors to career advancement and let's be honest, earn more money

Options:
1) Apply for a full-time job at current workplace, do distance DELTA through work next year (tutor/exam costs covered) while working F/T (ouch), MA back-burner, try to climb the ladder of language school. Will have 2.5yrs post CELTA experience by next DELTA intake.

2) Ditto 1) except save money like crazy and do a F/T DELTA and get it out of the way (assuming I can get on it and pass it - does anyone think I'm being overly-optimistic about this generally, with minimum req experience and non-English degree?)

3) Ditto 2) except put the DELTA credit towards an MA and get them both done consecutively (will need to get a loan or sell a kidney)

Any other options considered.

Current situation:
UK male, 33, BSc, CELTA, no big debts, no big savings, no criminal past, nice job (adults, GE and EAP, 20hrs contact, Vietnam), but developing city life is starting to hurt badly. Would like to make some nest-egg money mid-term, learn a major language, and move to (preferably western) Europe long-term. Can't see myself being able to work F/T in Vietnam and do a distance MA.

Sorry for massive post - (potentially) massive decisions.

Boot

PS I enjoyed the post re: Living wage in Europe which started as a rant but turned into a really good read on English teaching prospects in general. Thanks for everyone's input, this forum can be great.

[spiral78]

It sounds like your options 1 and 3 might be the best EXCEPT the time line. Why not get the DELTA now, as it sounds like you've got a feasible plan to accomplish this. Then, in a couple of years after you've had time to save, get an MA that will give you some credits for having done the DELTA (some of the reputable UK unis do this).

So far as relocating to Western Europe, a DELTA should qualify you for teacher training gigs, senior teacher and DOS positions, and possibly for some uni jobs, though those are relatively thin on the ground. You should expect to have to pay a few dues in some city/region before finding the better jobs around - the usual route is to pick a place, move there, get whatever's going, and build local rep and contacts. The better gigs usually come around in year 2 and later. Local language skills are also a big help.

It's not an instant shoo-in, in most cases (though with Great Good Luck not impossible, of course) but it is do-able with some commitment to both the quals and to an area.


Yes, your assessment of both quals is pretty much correct.

[Teacher in Rome]

Can you do the DELTA part-time in Vietnam? I did this over 9 months, and it worked well for me. Don't underestimate the hours you'll be putting in - F/T teachers on my course had it hard. (I was unemployed, so had it much easier, and I needed the hours to study...)

For most entry-level jobs in Europe, you won't need a DELTA. If you're thinking of doing it just for Europe, get a feel for the sort of jobs you'd like (in the countries that interest you) and see what their requirements are. If you've already got the CELTA and a few years' experience, I'd say a DELTA wouldn't add much to your choice of jobs or potential salary. What you might want to look in to, though, are other specialist courses for niche areas, such as Business English course provision (LCCIEB run exams in this) or Intercultural Training (IH run courses in this).

[80daze]

I'm in the same boat but what swung it was finding out that if you have a trinity dip/ DELTA some uni's in the UK will give you between 20-30 credits off an MA TESOL.

I'm currently trying to get on a dip course through my employer and hope to start later this year. I'll do the MA after I've finished that.

[BootOfTheBeast]

Thanks all for valuable perspectives. 80Daze have a look here for DELTA exemptions:

http://www.cambridgeesol.org/exams/teaching-awards/delta-exemptions.html

Bath Uni credits DELTA as two of six core modules (not sure how many total credits that equates to, more research needed I think) and Leeds Metro give you 60. Both are MA ELT. I'm not sure if Trinity Dips carry the same benefit; the consensus is they're in other ways equivalent.

TiR - I was hoping with a DELTA I wouldn't only be eligible for entry-level jobs. I infer mid-level jobs would need something else (more experience, management quals you suggested?). I can do the distance DELTA through work, but it would mean staying here for another two years (next intake is next year I think) and I honestly don't know if I've got that in me. I've also come to the conclusion that the dream job we talked about on the Italy job forum isn't feasible and I'm going to have to bite the bullet in terms of workload/commitment.

Spiral - the thing I've had exposure to so far that I've been most interested in is phonetics/pron. It's something you can really see immediate improvement in, especially here where there are virtually no final sounds of any variety, their intonation is all over the place (any time they use the word 'up' they give a good impression of someone receiving an electric shock) and they produce very staccato sentences. Once I start really diving into my studies and/or teaching learners from other languages there may be other areas that take my fancy.

What did you folks enjoy learning/teaching most?

Boot

[Kofola]

Hi,

Just picking up on the point about phonology. If this really interests you, then you might want to consider the Trinity Diploma (also available as a distance option with a 2-week practical in Edinburgh).

Depending on the MA, this can also be dealt with more substantially - often giving you the opportunity to analyse in greater depth particular difficulties learners face in your geographical area. The dissertation could be on this as well.

Hope it helps.

[Teacher in Rome]

[BootOfTheBeast]

likeability and ability to get on with others? Curse it, there's always something standing in the way... Still the rest is encouraging!

Kofola, that's a good tip, sounds like a good option if I did it full-time. Part-time I'm limited to the DELTA through work (they'd provide my tutoring on-site at work, which is probably worth its weight in gold). Did you do the Trinity, and if so what did you think - worth it professionally/financially?

Boot

[scintillatestar]

If money isn't an issue, I would recommend the masters. You can get all of the jobs that you'd get with a DELTA if you have a masters. The reverse is not always true, though. Most universities require a masters (or even PhD) to teach. It's just a more portable qualification, in my opinion. There are distance M.A. programs, some with a on-campus teaching practicum.

Another idea, if you're willing to work with younger learners, is to get certified. There are a lot of high-paying jobs available in the ME and HK - ADEC and NET for example + a large pool of international schools. You would not need a masters, although that would usually give you a pay boost. Given the global trend for bilingual K-12 education (with English being one of the languages), this could be a good investment.

[BootOfTheBeast]

Yes, certification has been at the back of my mind - what's probably kept it at the back is the thought of spending all that time in the UK education system while I do the certification!

I think you're right about the opportunities; there does seem to be a lot of well-paid K-12 jobs out there, and it does open up places that ESL teachers can't go (in any financial comfort at least). I'm not totally against young learners, and I bet it carries its own kind of rich rewards, but whenever I think of a job like that I think of herding cats. Do I have the patience, I ask myself. Maybe a couple of weekend kids classes at one of the other schools in town would tell me what I need to know about that before I make a decision.

On the distance-learning front, money is definitely an issue. My thinking was save hard now and through the diploma while I work, and aim to have enough put by to complete the remaining Masters credits on site back home so I can a) get it done more quickly and b) can really focus on what I assume is a pretty demanding course. My boss recently completed a distance MA (went home for the practical) but he was able to take himself off the teaching timetable when necessary. I wouldn't fancy it with a 40-hr (20+ contact) work week going on at the same time. It would ease the financial burden though, I see what you mean.


Boot

[redsnapper]

[Kofola]

Hi Boot,

I decided against the diploma in the end (mostly because of the difficulty of doing it distance and the fact that I only get 4 weeks holiday a year and really need a break in the summer.

However, I am now doing the MA (distance) and I'm really glad I made that choice. It's tough - I reduced my teaching hours, but still work full-time and a lot of midnight oil is burnt. Somehow I've managed to meet all the deadlines so far...

I think the MA is really good for teachers with a lot of experience who are motivated to try out new things in the classroom based on the reading. It's been really nice exploring the theoretical background to things that through experience I had already decided were more effective, but now know more about cognition etc so understand how they work. I like the fact that I can explore the things that really interest me and in sufficient depth. It's hard to compare things when you only have knowledge of one, but I think I'd rather have more theory and less practical.

Hope this helps,

Kofola

[Insubordination]

Are you working full-time while having a full-time study load? Or are you taking a part-time load?

[Kofola]

It's a fairly standard distance part-time format.

[GambateBingBangBOOM]