Job Discussion Forums

[tttompatz]

I honestly get a chuckle from this thread. Struggling on 5k?

Korea, usually claimed to be the best package in Asia for teachers without QTS, even with ALL the benefits included, only comes in at about 7k MYR.

Japan, even for the qualified, is similar (8k MYR) with few or NONE of the benefits (such as airfare, housing, etc).

Government jobs (with ALL the perks and requiring home country QTS/licensing) in Taiwan peak out at just under 9k MYR.

When did Malaysia become a member of the "Developed" countries or one of the G20?

.

[Hod]

[KayuJati]

Right....lots of jobs over RM10+ per month, but other than the British Council -with their limited positions- I never see anyone posting *where* these high-paid, expat-only positions exist. For example, I know that the owner of the Mont Kiara Int'l School was actively recruiting locals (RM4-6k) to replace the high-cost foreign teachers (RM10-12k) when he bought the school back in 1999-2000.

As tttompatz stated, Malaysian salaries are competitive with those in Korea, Japan and China, and elsewhere. The problem with KL and Penang is that the cost-of-living in those two cities has out-paced the increase in salaries. House prices are way out-of-whack relative to salaries and rentals. On the other hand, in smaller cities, the stated salaries put us into the top 5% of wage earners amongst the locals. Even CEOs don't get that much (e.g., my college pays our CEO RM17k per month, and the head of a local yayasan is probably only on RM20k).

As for pensions, Malaysia has the Employee Provident Fund (EPF) in which the employee has up to 11% of their salary deducted, while the employer puts in an amount equal to 12% of the base salary, into the fund which the government invests in projects. Dividends have been in the 4-6% range, which isn't as good as it used to be, but is better than what banks pay. Those of us non-locals who were able to enroll in this program have been able to build up a nice amount of savings in addition to what gets saved otherwise.

Expat packages in Malaysia appear to be on the decline, not increase. If any of you other posters have information to the contrary, please post. But "hand-waving arguments" are not information.

[Hod]

I agree the EPF is good but know of very few non-Malaysians in that scheme.

I live in Europe now but recently gave serious thought to a year out for an MSc at Nottingham University's KL campus. (I am still a big KL fan). To go from working full time to studying with no income obviously requires a lot of financial planning, no matter what savings you have. I tried and tried to work out a budget of RM5K or RM6K a month in KL with a few local holidays and one flight to Europe thrown in. It just wasn't doable.

A higher budget is affordable, but I wasn�t prepared to blow such a big hole in my savings. And as for a lower budget, I earned RM3500 in KL a decade ago and didn't have to pay for accommodation then. I would be foolhardy to try and survive on that sort of income now.

[Nemodot]

I did a budget for 5k living in KL and still doable but as I said before that's then plus capital savings and investments. Salary scales at high end int schools are 12k plus but so few jobs. Oil industry pays a lit more and a few banking, itc jobs and service sector jobs like supermarket management. But these are sent by int firms. You don't see those advertised locally.

The expat working community in kl is relatively small compared to the size of the economy I observed. I never really mixed with the ellite expats though as I prefer to mingle with locals and the freelance type of expats who earn a lot less and are more culturally aware.

I've got a couple of interviews coming up for Malaysia so I might be putting my Malaysian dollars where my mouth is lol

[KayuJati]

[roamingteacher]

I don't think it's particularly constructive to start drawing lines and establishing camps of 'them' and 'us'. We are supposed to be supportive on here and some of the comments in the last couple of posts could be read as attacks on those earning more than 'the local salary' without much justification. If you do indeed live as a local, then you are probably not well-informed enough to comment on those in the 'expat ghettos' or living any other lifestyle. Having a larger income does not automatically mean you are isolated from the local community, because we all know that KL has its fair share of Malaysian nationals living in these 'ghettos'. In fact, I'd go so far as to say expats are still a minority in most areas, though it might seem otherwise purely when comparing to areas where there are fewer or none.

Certainly, when I step outside my ivory tower (??), the surrounding bungalows (read 'mansions') are occupied almost exclusively by 'locals' (or are rich people not allowed access to that label?)

I resent the implication that having an income of more than 5K makes you some kind of cultural philistine. I have friends whose salaries range from 3K to (I imagine judging from the rent they're paying) well over 30K, but I would never presume to say they had any more or less cultural awareness than myself. I see those on the highest salaries out for dinners with 50/50 local/expat friends and I see people working for peanuts sticking closely to their own. There is no hard and fast rule and generalisations (as we all know) can only lead to prejudice and misinformation.

Those 'elite' not staying for long are often moved on against their will by the multinational that placed them here. Believe me, I have seen tears over this as families are ripped away from the friends and neighbours they have come to love. I have also witnessed these same people learning Malay and celebrating local festivals with as much gusto (if not more) than those holier-than-thou martyrs who avoid the ghettos. Sorry, I'm getting a bit emotional myself, but these posts have really riled me and I'm not even at the top of the salary scale!

As with anywhere, KL is a mix of personalities, social stratas, living conditions and opinions. The fact is you can choose to place yourself in a range of situations depending on the opportunities that present themselves. You can live on 5K, but if you want more perks, such as holidays and upmarket restaurants, then it will take more, just as it does for the local population. I think there is enough information out there to be able to judge if it's going to offer you what you want, but overall, I love it here and with more or less money coming in, I'd stay. Whatever level you live at, you have access to a range of experiences and how you choose to shape that - i.e. making it more like 'at home' or more 'Malay-style' - is a matter of personal preference regardless of income.

[gloomyGumi]

hmmmm, that last post.......y do i get the feeling kayujati needs to jump in about now ???

I guess becasue his 15 years or so in Malaysia would qualify him to. I know that phenomenon as well of expats cloistering themselves around a Hard Rock Cafe/Dunkin Donuts strip mall, and barely ever coming out. Quite an ugly thing to see. Kayujati is right to point this phenomenon out and is entitled to jokingly call it a "ghetto". I quite agree.

[KayuJati]

Yeah, it was not my intent to get anyone riled up, nor did I ever state that an income of RM5k was a dividing line between "us" and "them". An expat ghetto is not so much a particular location as it is a mind-set, and I have been around long enough to see that mind-set in Americans, British, Australians, Koreans, and Japanese living in KL. Not everyone, mind you, and certainly not based upon income level. But it is there.

I can also say that my Malay colleagues indicated that once THEY live overseas, they also tend to cloister together in a "kampung" scene shows that it is human nature to want to be around people similar to oneself in language, education level, income level, and etc.

I didn't even coin the term "expat ghetto". It has been in use for a long time. Do a web search on the term and you will see what I mean.

So, no offense intended.

But, I would like to meet some of those expats that you say learned Malay. I haven't met any of them on my trips to KL.

[gloomyGumi]

call me a weirdo wackjob, but as an american having "escaped" 45 years of living in New York City and New Jersey, the LAST thing I feel like doing is seeking out any americans ANYWHERE. honestly.

but for those addicted to 24-hour contact with others like themselves, i guess they do establish those ghettoes for some kind of comfort. seems self-defeating, though, to trek your butt halfway around the globe to end of sipping a dunkin donuts coffee with a bunch of other americans.

[Hod]

[roamingteacher]

Of course they can, and that's why making an effort to learn it at all is admirable. It sure ain't easy - I've been trying for a long time and it's pretty frustrating. Which brings me back to my original point - without knowing these different groups of people, how can we possibly comment on what they do or do not do? How do we know that, because we see them in Starbucks, they are ALWAYS there and never go for a nasi lemak, or aren't just about to meet with their Malaysian friends?

It's the judgement factor that was annoying, that's all. People repeat the same behaviours all over the world, but it doesn't make one person 'better' than another in some way. Who knows what their reasons are?

I just think 'live and let live' - I'll enjoy my experience and try to let others do the same, without projecting my own ideas onto people I don't know.

If anything, Malaysia seems more mixed to me than the other countries I've lived in - perhaps because language is not such a barrier between the local population and expats. There are way more Malaysian-expat relationships among my colleagues and friends than I saw elsewhere - even in Europe.

If my experience is different from yours, regardless of how long I've been here, it doesn't make it any less valid - it's just another perspective.

I wonder if anyone has anything to add on the original topic of this thread? Anyone? Would be good to hear more options...

[KayuJati]

[roamingteacher]

I agree KJ, although it's soooo difficult when English is your first language. Even friends who promise to 'teach' me end up saying 'oh let's just speak English cos it's quicker.' Moving away from the city does seem like the best way to learn the language, but then...no Starbucks!

[rayman]

If learning Malay and big cities are your thing, but the English is too widely spoken in KL, then Jakarta fo a year or two is always an option. From my experience it's much easier learning Indonesian here than Malay in KL. Given the friendlier locals and generally more limited English ability in Indonesia. Obviously, there are some subtle language differences and you'd want to avoid learning Bahasa Gaul, but it will definately fast track you to learning Malay. Then as a supplement, watch daily episodes of Upin & Ipin!

Just a thought.