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veiledsentiments
Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 17644
Location: USA
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 Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2011 1:39 am Post subject: Re: Bell Obeikan KSU PYP programme |
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| 7168Riyadh wrote: |
| Zippy-dippy is living is still living cloud cuckoo land, of course. How long does it take for someone to wake up and smell the poo? Look, if you need the money, heads down and act like nothing is wrong; otherwise, shut the f*** up, or move out. |
That makes almost no sense... are you hitting the sid?
VS |
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DenUk
Joined: 08 Aug 2009
Posts: 60
Location: Ask me..
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| Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2011 7:16 pm Post subject: Re: Bell Obeikan KSU PYP programme |
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| 7168Riyadh wrote: |
Ah, so according to DenUK...it's the same management set up. Thanks for letting us know.
[...] sorry about the silly rant  |
Yes, alot of teachers who worked there last year would say the same as you've stated 7168Riyadh, |
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7168Riyadh
Joined: 19 Jan 2009
Posts: 149
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| Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 7:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Yes, you really had to have been there to decipher my meaning...thanks |
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JK01
Joined: 13 Sep 2010
Posts: 33
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| Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 9:36 am Post subject: |
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Hi,
Other Saudi contractors appear to be recruiting for the KSU, will this be any different to the problems experienced by bell/obeikan, could it be possibly be any worse?
Is there any chance of a miracle and for things to improve?
Regards
JK |
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zippy2k
Joined: 07 Sep 2005
Posts: 42
Location: Riyadh
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| Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 10:18 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
Quote:
Re:Holiday leave, it is, really, unacceptable and ridiculous for expats to have to spend 7+months away from loved ones. I don't know of any other job in the KSA or elsewhere where expats are expected to put up with this.
Not to argue the more pertinent points of your post and, NOT mixing apples and oranges, but I think that you mis-typed this as there is a plethora of South Asians who routinely go without contact their loved on, sometimes for years at a time.
Not to quibble, It's just that this part of your post was over-reaching. Now, had you said diploma-wielding Western expats... |
Sheikh, yes, there are other expats and the non-western ones suffer a good deal more than us lucky westerners - fully acknowledged. However the fact remains it is still unacceptable for any expat to be forced to stay that period of time away from loved ones, especially those who have families. It stands to reason too - do employers really want workers in a bad mood, pining for home when their lives could be made a little more pleasant (even at the employers own expense)? Happy workers = productive workers in my view.
After the Dubai murders last year the UK foreign sec at the time David Milliband issues instructions to all UK passport holders not to surrender them to anyone. Forged UK and Irish passports were used in the attacks:
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| He added: "Any interference with British passports is an outrage. We take this case extremely seriously - the integrity of our system is critical." |
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/8521246.stm |
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veiledsentiments
Joined: 20 Feb 2003
Posts: 17644
Location: USA
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| Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 1:39 pm Post subject: |
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| zippy2k wrote: |
| It stands to reason too - do employers really want workers in a bad mood, pining for home when their lives could be made a little more pleasant (even at the employers own expense)? Happy workers = productive workers in my view. |
Is this a serious question? We are talking about one of the Gulf countries that has tens of thousands of expat workers who come on multi year contracts with no leaves, no days off (maybe half day on Friday) and live in rabbit warrens sharing bedroom and bathroom with dozens.
Basically they couldn't care any less about your "pining" for anything. They expect you to shut up and teach your classes and whatever else they tell you to do.
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sainthood
Joined: 15 Nov 2010
Posts: 175
Location: Somewhere over the rainbow
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| Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 10:42 am Post subject: FYI |
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Hi gang.
I'm new to post on this forum, cos I'm in China, but want to get away and into some money making!!
FTR, yeah, Bell is still hiring for KSU: http://www.tefl.com/jobs/job.html?jo_id=45955
I just sent off an email of interest.... oh well :p
Out of (naive) curiosity, would it make any difference going to the university directly, rather than through Bell??
Given I'm after the $$$, and am single :p any particular suggestions? (FTR, MAppLing, dodgey TESOL - but I'll do CELTA this August, and 2 years in a Chinese Uni). |
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teach star
Joined: 06 Oct 2010
Posts: 10
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| Posted: Sat Mar 19, 2011 6:42 am Post subject: it's not worth the money |
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| My only advice is to look for a job somewhere else. The money doesn't make up for the sadistic HR policies, which are not likely to change with the rearrangement between Bell, Obeikan and KSU. |
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scot47
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 15343
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| Posted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 6:50 am Post subject: |
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| Don't go there. There are better options in KSA. PM me if you want FREE advice. |
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7168Riyadh
Joined: 19 Jan 2009
Posts: 149
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| Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2011 2:50 am Post subject: KSU,Obeikan,Bell,Saudi Arabia,TEFL |
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| I agree with Scott. |
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blackorchid
Joined: 25 Dec 2010
Posts: 14
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| Posted: Sat Apr 16, 2011 10:46 am Post subject: Re: BELL/OBEIKAN/KSU PREPARATORY YEAR PROGRAM |
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It is my opinion that this quote does not represent the actual situation at King Saud University Preparatory Year Deanship Program. Please read my comments below. Then weight both opinions and then make up your mind to come or not come. Yes there are some teachers who have chosen to leave the program but here are many more who choose to stay. You decide.
| teacher911 wrote: |
KSU Preparatory Year DeanshipI know that this 'prestigious project' has been written about many times, but I don't feel that people have really done justice to the place.
What follows is a list of points and a brief explanation of each problem (not ranked in any order of importance) :
1.Amending teachers' contracts mid-contract: teachers have 2 choices; sign or go back to your own country
2.Not enough teachers in post: a problem for the last 3 years resulting in a mess of contractors who mainly use non-native speaker teachers, covered classes, lack of continuity for both students and teachers
3.Delayed payments: some payments have been delayed up to 5 months, trying to get a reimbursement is like drawing blood
4.Facilities: e-podiums forever break down (poor maintenance), shortage of basic materials such as boardmarkers, wipers, copy paper, staplers etc Obeikan own a national chain of stationary shops !! There are 2 photocopiers between 170+ teachers! They frequently break down and can be out of service for months at a time
5.An inexperienced management team: there are only a couple of exceptions but for the most part it's their first real supervisory post, this has resulted in a lack of planning and poor decision making
Lack of approachability; forget the 'top' management they are rarely available, and supervisors have neither accurate information nor decision making powers
Lack of accountability; it is a challenge to find out who is responsible for what, between the 3 partners they have made a success of making this area a minefield that is impassable
There is also a case of 'overinflated ego syndrome' they rarely admit to a mistake and behave as though they were Lee Iacocca
6.Last minute decisions: this is par for the course and can even relate to exams and exam preparation
7.Promises Promises: never materialize
8.Training: used to keep teachers on campus (instead of a break), arranged last minute and of very little value
9.Concern for teachers: teachers are voiceless, Bell look out for themselves and the same goes for Obeikan and KSU. The teachers are left to follow what they are told, they have little understanding of the laws even when they are in their favor.
Translating, dealing with authorities etc you are basically on your own
Trips, meals, activities are very rarely arranged leaving teachers to fend for themselves
10. Non Academic Administration; official paperwork takes time in this country but why this long ? Whatever the request Obeikan have their own schedule which inevitably means having to WAIT WAIT WAIT !
11. Instability; there is a very low level of morale teachers feel insecure about there positions and are not optimistic about the future of the project, especially the 3 way partnership
12. Double Standards, there are a number of 'teachers pets' among the staff, when it comes these people there is flexibilty with the rules and regs. |
[i]KSU Preparatory Year Deanship { What follows are my comments about the project I don't feel that people have really done justice to the place. }
1.Amending teachers' contracts mid-contract: {Contracts are not amended mid contract, Bell / Obiekan gives you more than enough opportunity for you to take your contact to a lawyer before you sign it. Lack of understanding the details of a contract does not mean the contact has been amended. In previous years this may have been the case ut not now}
2.Not enough teachers in post: { There are never enough qualified �good� teachers available for a challenging post in KSA. Typically the non-native speaker teachers have higher academic teaching qualifications than the native speaking teachers. Yes, covered classes are a necessary disruption as sometimes teachers need to take time off or are sick or have an emergency. }
3.Delayed payments: {payments are not delayed and yes there is paper work to complete. }
4.Facilities: {The e-podiums are not always breaking down and to say that they �forever break down� is an exaggeration of the situation. There is a team of lead teachers who look after getting the technology running smoothly. There is not a shortage of basic materials such as white board markers, wipers, copy paper, staplers }
Yes, there are 3 photocopiers between 200+ teachers! One is dedicated to large jobs. Like all office equipment they break down and need to be serviced. I have never seen these out of service for more than 3 days to the most.
5.An �inexperienced� management team: { No major complaints , however management is to be taken over by the university next year.}
Lack of approachability; {All though it is a challenge to approach the Saudi managers the Expat 'top' managers are available, and approachable. Supervisors have reasonable information. Management style in KSA is generally top down.}
Lack of accountability; � it is a challenge to find out who is responsible for what, between the 3 partners. { What would life be without challenges .}
There is also a case of 'overinflated ego syndrome' { this is an exaggerated pointless statement.}
6.Last minute decisions: {Sometimes it can be difficult to co-ordinate what needs to be done and then communicate it effectively.}
7.Promises Promises:. {Yes, but not the case of over promise and never deliver. }
8.Training: {Training and financial support (30% reimbursement) for training fees. Professional development is always a work in progress. Not used to keep teachers on campus, read the contract. }
9.Concern for teachers: teachers are voiceless, Bell looks out for themselves and the same goes for Obeikan and KSU. {The teachers are left on their own, as organized labour is illegal in KSA.} { Sadly, as we sign individual contracts, this is true. }
10. Non Academic Administration; official paperwork takes time in this country Whatever the request Obeikan have their own schedule which inevitably means having wait! { My answer plan ahead. Don�t leave things to the last moment. }
11. Instability; {The level of morale is improving, teachers are confident about there positions and are optimistic but cautious about the future of the project, especially with the changes in the 3 way partnership.}
12. Double Standards, { �Wasta� After all this is the KSA. Give an take works wonders if your willing to contribute. "Understanding wasta is key to understanding decisions in the Middle East, for wasta pervades the culture of all Arab countries and is a force in every significant decision. . . . Wasta is a way of life." What is this mysterious force? Nothing very surprising: wasta is Arabic for connections, pull. }
My hope is that you balance my comments with all the �negatives� and consider joining us here at KSU_PYD . the students need you.
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teach star
Joined: 06 Oct 2010
Posts: 10
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| Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 4:49 pm Post subject: response to Blackorchid |
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It�s interesting that Blackorchid has decided to defend Bell/Obeikan/KSU by responding to problems posted in January 2010, over a year ago.
Blackorchid, you claim that �the level of morale is improving, teachers are confident about their positions and are optimistic�� You have obviously not heard the inside of a teachers� room lately. How would you substantiate your claim that morale is improving?? Do you see it in the approximately 25% of teachers that are sick on a normal day this semester? (statistic provided by management) Do you see improving morale in the scores of teachers who have resigned since October?
How can teachers be confident about their positions after a Bell representative recently announced to the entire teaching staff that non-native speakers would not be hired next year? �Don�t panic�� we were told, they haven�t finalized their policy. What is this, if not fear-mongering?
If you want to defend Bell/Obeikan/KSU, why don�t you address more recent issues, such as those brought up by:
-7168Riyadh, 11/2: teachers have been refused a break between semesters, unpaid leave and multi-visas
-MiBoo, 19/2: teachers have their passports taken off them, no breaks between November and June, no multi-visas, teaching from theory and self-study books.
-Zippy 2K, 1/3: unresponsive management, retaining passports is actually illegal, etc.
A final question for you, Blackorchid. Why does Bell not state clearly and explicitly in their recruiting materials that teachers will be expected to surrender their passports for the duration of the contract, and that teachers will not be able to take holiday leave when the students have semester breaks? |
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blackorchid
Joined: 25 Dec 2010
Posts: 14
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| Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2011 2:26 pm Post subject: Re: response to Blackorchid |
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| teach star wrote: |
It�s interesting that Blackorchid has decided to defend Bell/Obeikan/KSU by responding to problems posted in January 2010, over a year ago.
Blackorchid, you claim that �the level of morale is improving, teachers are confident about their positions and are optimistic�� You have obviously not heard the inside of a teachers� room lately. How would you substantiate your claim that morale is improving?? Do you see it in the approximately 25% of teachers that are sick on a normal day this semester? (statistic provided by management) Do you see improving morale in the scores of teachers who have resigned since October?
How can teachers be confident about their positions after a Bell representative recently announced to the entire teaching staff that non-native speakers would not be hired next year? �Don�t panic�� we were told, they haven�t finalized their policy. What is this, if not fear-mongering?
If you want to defend Bell/Obeikan/KSU, why don�t you address more recent issues, such as those brought up by:
-7168Riyadh, 11/2: teachers have been refused a break between semesters, unpaid leave and multi-visas
-MiBoo, 19/2: teachers have their passports taken off them, no breaks between November and June, no multi-visas, teaching from theory and self-study books.
-Zippy 2K, 1/3: unresponsive management, retaining passports is actually illegal, etc.
A final question for you, Blackorchid. Why does Bell not state clearly and explicitly in their recruiting materials that teachers will be expected to surrender their passports for the duration of the contract, and that teachers will not be able to take holiday leave when the students have semester breaks? |
Hi Teach Star,
I am not here to defend either Bell or Obeikan. My only reason for quoting the 2010 message was because of the prominace it has in this topic on the forum. For what ever it is worth, my intention is add balance to the discussion. I can only offer 'my opinion' and perspective.
On the current issues raised by each of the teachers who posted responses, these issues are real enough and management and the university seriously need to listen to each one of them so that the program continues to improve.
1. The holding of passorts was explained to all employees prior to our taking the contract and it is not illegal in KSA to hold the passports of employees. Yes, some unscrupulous employers use this as a scare and intimidation tactic. Most embassies advie their citizens to carry duplicate copies of their passports in the event of an emmergency or catastrophy. For you information Bell does indicate in their recruitment documents that passports will be held by the employer.
2.Multi-exit re-entry visas I have had no problem leaving the country to visit UAE or Baharain. Yes, we must apply for the exit visa in advance.
3. The holidays: are clearly stipulated in the contract. Nothing
more, nothing less. The students breaks are never mentioned as non-working days. Bell managers have continually negotiated without successs for added "vacation time" during the students university breaks for the teachers.
4. The Sick leave policy is clearly defined in the contract and is a standard HR policy.
5.Non-native speakers add professional teaching and an excellent cultural bridge between the Saudi students and the Western teachers. In my opinion the University needs to reconsider its policy on this issue.
6.Issues at the womens campus: are best commented on by the ladies. However, ladies ( and their husbands if they are coming here together) need to seriously consider the management style used on the women's campus.
Yes, some teachers are unhappy with the situation and choose to resign. On the other hand the vast majority are still here working every day inspite of the challenges.
There are real problems and challenges for the KSU-PYD project, on both campuses, but are they reason to say not to come here.
Read the forums, be aware of the problems and issues. "Eyes wide open."
Although returning teachers are forbidden to engage in any form of organized negotiation of our contracts, new teachers always have that option open to them. Tunsia and Egypt have proven the power of social networking. .. ie. twitter, facebook..... use the technology. Why do we as teachers continually let employers walk all over us.
Remenber we ESL/EFL teachers have the skills, talent, and experience that these employers and countries want. We teachers are not without power. I worked with workers in Latin America, Asia and America to get what they deserved.. ESL teachers have laid down far too long and our salaries reflect it.
From inside the KSA....
Good luck. |
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DenUk
Joined: 08 Aug 2009
Posts: 60
Location: Ask me..
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| Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2011 2:46 pm Post subject: AETG-KSU |
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Hi peeps,
This thread is always busy with comments.
I'd like to ask are there any teachers who are with AETG working at KSU? If so, I'd like to hear about their experience to date with their recruiter, saudi employer, accomodation, visa etc.
I'm aware there's a separate thread about the company on here, but this is specific to their contract with KSU.
Thanks,
D |
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Grendal
Joined: 13 Aug 2009
Posts: 861
Location: Lurking in the depths of the Faisaliah Tower underground parking.
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| Posted: Fri May 06, 2011 9:58 pm Post subject: |
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Looks like next year all the managerial positions are going to be run by KSU staff and not recruiter staff (i.e. Bell). So Bell is going to be competing with Ed-Ex, ICEAT, AETG, and another one I can't remember right now. Ed-Ex has swallowed up the humanities department and now has their eyes on getting a foot into the sciences section of the KSU PY Programme. Bell is going to be hard pressed to be able to retain their teachers and recruit the hundreds of positions that are opening up. High turnover for Bell but lower for the other recruiters. With each passing day Bell seems to be loosing the grip of majority at KSU and the university seems to be going towards a coalition staff of different recruiters.
I was getting sick of their torrents of emails everyday and now I guess I'll have to get used to the torrents of useless emails from the KSU managing staff.
Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.
Grendal
ps Thank God I'm not in the women's section or a woman in the women's section |
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