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scot47 · Joined: 10 Jan 2003 Posts: 15343

You see now that this thread WILL NOT DIE !

Mystic Eyes · Joined: 16 Mar 2004 Posts: 11 Location: UK

I think alot of you have been a tad hard on Aisha.and have greatly diverted from the initial question posted,..and Scot46 shame on you! I mean, talk about nitpicking! Rolling Eyes

Aisha, I myself am not a native English speaker whatever the word means, and believe the term native speaker is long overdue for early retirement. The language that one learns as a child should not be the criteria for their linguistic skill in their adult life, but rather their performance and proficiency in the language. The word native is quite problematic because it denotes the locality one is born or brought up in. Some argue that being a native speaker is influenced by where you were born and the first language you learned to speak, even if it was for only a short period of time. What about children who move to another country and learn another language, what are they native speakers of? Would they be considered to be native speakers of the second language they have learned, especially if they have forgotten the L1? What about children who are brought up with more than one language,(my son being one of them) are they native speakers of both languages?

The concept of the native-speaker is quite a complex one, one that has been the focus of a great deal of debates and controversy, and I think it is safe to say we are nowhere closer to resolving the issue, as is evident by this thread Confused

Sadly, The reality in the ELT profession is best described by a non-native speaker, �At best, I can be second best." And what would we make of:
�Someone should learn them Pakis to speak proper�(Leeds taxi driver). The speaker here is demonstrating �linguistic and sociolinguistic competence� for a working class Leeds speech community, but not the standard language that would be demonstrated by for example an Eton or Oxford-educated Pakistani, Arab or what have you. Ironically, I cannot help but think that if this same working class Leeds taxi driver were to apply to an English teaching position they would probably get preference over a non-native speaker who spoke the standard variation of the language, merely on the merits of being a native speaker. I might be mistaken, but it�s food for thought.

ME

Mystic Eyes · Joined: 16 Mar 2004 Posts: 11 Location: UK

Oops!

Scot47 that is.

About The Author · Posted: Mon May 03, 2004 11:34 pm Post subject:

I know English native speakers that cannot read, spell, and/or write English properly...

Yet, they are native all right...

Then we can read all kind of teachers' idiocies on this website. Showing a bench of "junk", slang, phrases with an attitude, funky words, inventive grammar; you name it: you'll finf it on Dave' Caf� ...

Yet, they are native all right... and they LOOK-KOOL all right...

phis · Joined: 10 Mar 2003 Posts: 250

I presume the OP wants to be classified as a native speaker so that she can find a teaching position as one. So let's give her some straight answers:

Is she a NATIVE speaker of english? NO

Would she be offered a teaching position anyway? NO, not if she sent an application letter containing the errors she has made in her posts here.

If she sent a good application and then had a telephone interview, would she be offered a teaching position? NO, not if she demonstrated the same attitude she did here everytime someone said something she didn't like. Attitude is hard to disguise. Warning bells would be sounding loud and clear to the interviewer.

It's a hostile world out here, especially as so many of us work in countries other than our own. I would hate to have to deal with someone who screamed '..... PREJUDICE' (of whatever kind) and went into a hissy fit, everytime she/he heard something they didn't like. Just imagine:

DOS: 'I've noticed that you have a bit of a control problem with your students. Could you come along to the Class Management training session I'm running next week?'

Teacher (Stamping feet in anger): 'No, I won't! You're just picking on me again because I'm not a native teacher/black/white/tall/short/fat/thin ...... (You can choose your own prejudice. The list is endless. But you do get the picture, don't you?)[/i]

Otterman Ollie

Yes mate nice one couldn't have said it better myself ,no doubt the ever so miffed native speaker wannabe will come back with a stylish reply that totally misses the point of what you said . But we all know shes got a major problem in more ways than one ,native speaker dream on !

Victoria · Joined: 02 May 2004 Posts: 137

It is about pride.
English are colonialists, Americans imperialists:
and they are thinking how dare anyone would submit the pretension to teach English as a non-native.

(English the worth spoken language on earth)

Canadians are between two chairs, they are not Americans, they are not French - They too have an identity problem.

scot47 · Joined: 10 Jan 2003 Posts: 15343

"Poor Mexico. So far from God. So near to the United States".

Imperialism and colonialism or the neo-varieties of the same are very useful ways of deflecting blame.

Aishaaish has taken umbrage and has gone off to some other forum where she can rant about the evil Klan (doubtless founded by a Scotsman) who want to keep her out of teaching.

Bah ! Humbug !