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LettersAthruZ
Joined: 25 Apr 2010
Posts: 466
Location: North Viet Nam
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 Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 6:21 pm Post subject: |
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Correct on ALL THREE points, Sigmoid.....
....oh - and if you look at the last couple of years, the fact that half of Europe going into default on their national debt and making austerity budget cuts ensures a constant supply of economic refugees into Ho CHi Minh City and Ha Noi that are more than willing to put downward pressure on teaching salaries, soooo.......
But, hey - don't listen to they naysayers....it's a regular bed of roses here! Especially with oil prices going up....and thusly, jet fuel prices going up....and that visa run you have to take BY AIR ONLY (no more overland visa runs except for only a 30 day extension) to Bangkok that USED to cost $140USD round-trip is now $220USD every three months, well, hey......life is good here - don't listen naysayers!
"Right - but only the cowboy outfits (rogue schools) don't provide you with a work permit so you don't have to make the flight every three months"
Right, and so go with a big name and watch them bring up that they've paid over $1000 in Hoi Lo (bribes) to the local authorities for your work permit and watch your ability to negotiate for your salary go right down the toilet based on that point!
But still - I'm just afraid of the competition.......  |
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I'm With Stupid
Joined: 03 Sep 2010
Posts: 432
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| Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 8:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Skyblue2 wrote: |
| You may have to do your own legwork. And whatever accommodation will be overpriced (foreigner price) and eat up 1/3 of your salary. |
If your accommodation is eating up a third of your salary in Vietnam, then you're getting ripped off either by your landlord or your school. Or you're living by yourself in an expensive apartment, in which case, good for you, but it's hardly an accurate reflection of the cost of living. And sharing an apartment isn't exactly an unusual living situation for adults in a big city. I don't know anyone who pays more than $300 a month rental in Saigon, and most are closer to $200 (which is what I pay). If that's a third of your salary, then I'd advise you to find another job quickly. |
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1st Sgt Welsh
Joined: 13 Dec 2010
Posts: 946
Location: Bandar Seri Begawan, Brunei
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| Posted: Fri Apr 22, 2011 1:27 am Post subject: |
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| I'm With Stupid wrote: |
| Skyblue2 wrote: |
| You may have to do your own legwork. And whatever accommodation will be overpriced (foreigner price) and eat up 1/3 of your salary. |
If your accommodation is eating up a third of your salary in Vietnam, then you're getting ripped off either by your landlord or your school. Or you're living by yourself in an expensive apartment, in which case, good for you, but it's hardly an accurate reflection of the cost of living. And sharing an apartment isn't exactly an unusual living situation for adults in a big city. I don't know anyone who pays more than $300 a month rental in Saigon, and most are closer to $200 (which is what I pay). If that's a third of your salary, then I'd advise you to find another job quickly. |
I pay $450 a month but that includes everything (laundry, electricity, cable TV, internet, water, maid service). It's a fully furnished one bedroom apartment in a great location in District 1. Also I didn't have to pay a bond or sign a lease. |
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Skyblue2
Joined: 04 Sep 2007
Posts: 127
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| Posted: Fri Apr 22, 2011 2:41 am Post subject: |
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| sigmoid wrote: |
| Fact 2) The cost of living used to be a lot lower. Five years of rampant inflation is a well documented reality. Wages haven't plummeted. They've merely stayed pretty much the same. |
That's the clincher for me. Stagnant salaries + soaring inflation = relative poverty. |
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Skyblue2
Joined: 04 Sep 2007
Posts: 127
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| Posted: Fri Apr 22, 2011 2:47 am Post subject: |
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| I'm With Stupid wrote: |
| Skyblue2 wrote: |
| You may have to do your own legwork. And whatever accommodation will be overpriced (foreigner price) and eat up 1/3 of your salary. |
If your accommodation is eating up a third of your salary in Vietnam, then [...] you're living by yourself in an expensive apartment, in which case, good for you, but it's hardly an accurate reflection of the cost of living. And sharing an apartment isn't exactly an unusual living situation for adults in a big city. |
Maybe it's just me, but I think roommates are for students and prison inmates. And I don't want to live in a cramped bedsit. I want to be able to walk around in my boxers, put my feet up, and watch what I want on my own plasma screen with a pizza box on my beer belly and a bottle of Jack D at my side. So decent accommodation, with modern fixtures and fittings, is expensive relative to salary. If you're a gap-year kiddie or a recent grad who just wants to "experience" Southeast Asia, it might be OK for you. |
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haller_79
Joined: 09 Mar 2007
Posts: 145
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| Posted: Fri Apr 22, 2011 3:31 am Post subject: |
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The following people are best suited to ESL in Vietnam:
a) crazy people who are perpetually 'in the moment'.
b) gap year students
c) retirees who want to tick a few adventure boxes off
d) 'real' teachers looking for something a bit different for a few months
I wonder how many of the people whinging on this board were in dead end jobs back home and thought ESL in Vietnam would be just the tonic? If so who should you be blaming, Vietnam or yourself? |
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1st Sgt Welsh
Joined: 13 Dec 2010
Posts: 946
Location: Bandar Seri Begawan, Brunei
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| Posted: Fri Apr 22, 2011 4:48 am Post subject: |
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| Skyblue2 wrote: |
Maybe it's just me, but I think roommates are for students and prison inmates. And I don't want to live in a cramped bedsit. I want to be able to walk around in my boxers, put my feet up, and watch what I want on my own plasma screen with a pizza box on my beer belly and a bottle of Jack D at my side. |
From my own personal perspective, I couldn't agree more!  However, if people want to stay in shared accommodation that's their choice and more power to them.
| sigmoid wrote: |
| Quote: |
| But I've noticed a syndrome wherein certain posters lament the passing of a semi-mythical "Golden Age" in their country of choice |
Semi-mythical?
Anyone who was in Viet Nam around 5 - 10 years ago would be familiar with the following totally-factual facts:
Fact 1) Traffic used to be somewhat normal with about half the motorbikes and almost no cars.
Fact 2) The cost of living used to be a lot lower. Five years of rampant inflation is a well documented reality. Wages haven't plummeted. They've merely stayed pretty much the same.
Fact 3) Continual 6-month business visas were had for the asking. Visa runs were non-existent.
In short, VN can't compete anymore. |
| LettersAthruZ wrote: |
Correct on ALL THREE points, Sigmoid.....
....oh - and if you look at the last couple of years, the fact that half of Europe going into default on their national debt and making austerity budget cuts ensures a constant supply of economic refugees into Ho CHi Minh City and Ha Noi that are more than willing to put downward pressure on teaching salaries, soooo.......
But, hey - don't listen to they naysayers....it's a regular bed of roses here! Especially with oil prices going up....and thusly, jet fuel prices going up....and that visa run you have to take BY AIR ONLY (no more overland visa runs except for only a 30 day extension) to Bangkok that USED to cost $140USD round-trip is now $220USD every three months, well, hey......life is good here - don't listen naysayers!
"Right - but only the cowboy outfits (rogue schools) don't provide you with a work permit so you don't have to make the flight every three months"
Right, and so go with a big name and watch them bring up that they've paid over $1000 in Hoi Lo (bribes) to the local authorities for your work permit and watch your ability to negotiate for your salary go right down the toilet based on that point!
But still - I'm just afraid of the competition....... |
This has become an interesting discussion  . I know the point of the "Golden Age" was made by Aristede and I agree totally with him/her. I've noticed this tendency to lament the passing of the 'good old days' by posters here as well. I don't wish to sound insensitive, but if things were better for expats five or ten years ago - so what?
In regards to the present, I believe, all things considered, Vietnam still offers a good deal and is competitive as a TEFL destination. LettersAthurz mentioned the "economic refugees" coming into Hanoi and HCMC (this is confirmed by my own experience) and there is a reason for that! Vietnam is rightly seen as an attractive option to many and better than a lot of alternatives (which includes staying at home with few opportunities in a terrible economy).
The OP, like many who read this forum, is interested in possibly coming to Vietnam. I'll give a rundown of my own personal circumstances and others can draw whatever conclusions they want from it. Naturally, this is just one person's experience.
Firstly (and this is important) - I am lucky in that I work for a good school. Good management, good resources and [mostly] conscientious and respectful students. My qualifications are not electrifying - got a BA (Hons) and a CELTA (also about two-thirds of the way through a PhD). Had no TEFL experience prior to Vietnam although I did teach history for a year at a university.
Pay/Work Hours: Earn $24 an hour. Teach 18 a week (Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday). Unless I am doing covers (which happens), I have four day weekends every week . Gross salary is just over $1,800 a month but this excludes money from covers. After health insurance and tax I would typically have left over around $1500 (and this is conservative). Naturally I could make extra money by getting a second job (or by doing privates), but I don't need to so I don't.
Outgoings: Like I said in an earlier post, I pay $450 a month for accommodation which includes everything so I don't clean and I don't do laundry. Nor do I cook (not very good at it, don't enjoy it and I don't have to). There is a wide selection of very good restaurants within easy walking distance of where I live and I eat out for all three meals a day. Once again, to be conservative, let's put the price of food per day at $12 so I spend around $350 a month on eating. In regards to transport, I rent a motor scooter for $50 a month and it costs me around $10 extra for petrol.
So all up my general monthly living experiences are around $860. That leaves around $640 for entertainment and savings. Don't forget, I don't work that many hours, I live extremely comfortably, the above figures are conservative and I could easily earn more and spend less if I wanted.
Visas: Never had a problem with this myself (although I don't doubt others have). Work is currently in the process of organising (and paying for) a residency card - so no problems there.
Holidays: Under my contract, holidays are unpaid, but that's OK. Get two weeks off a year during Tet and another week during the May holidays. You can get more time off if you want it and I am planning on taking an extra five weeks off during this year. Also I have my four day weekends - so if I want to go for a few days to Singapore, Cambodia, Mui Ne, Hoi An etc, etc, etc - no problem.
Like I said, this is just my own personal circumstances but I am very happy with it. If there are more "competitive" places out there which allow me to enjoy more free time and a better income and lifestyle (with my entry level qualifications) than trust me, I'm all ears. |
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toiyeuthitmeo
Joined: 21 May 2010
Posts: 213
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| Posted: Fri Apr 22, 2011 10:25 am Post subject: |
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| Nice post. When the sky really is falling, I mean really, really falling, and when the wolf is closing in, I mean so close you can see the blood on his teeth, I trust someone here will give us ample warning. Until then, we tread on. Viva la Vietnam ESL experience! |
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Aristede
Joined: 06 Aug 2009
Posts: 180
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| Posted: Fri Apr 22, 2011 10:48 am Post subject: |
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This has become an interesting discussion . I know the point of the "Golden Age" was made by Aristede and I agree totally with him/her. I've noticed this tendency to lament the passing of the 'good old days' by posters here as well. I don't wish to sound insensitive, but if things were better for expats five or ten years ago - so what? |
Exactly. It is not constructive or helpful to bray about the loss of what once existed whether or not it is accurate. Times change. People who live effective lives think in terms of present situations and future solutions.
| Quote: |
| In regards to the present, I believe, all things considered, Vietnam still offers a good deal and is competitive as a TEFL destination. |
Your post is a case in point. Thank you for taking the time to post specific and relevant information. |
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Brighton Blade
Joined: 12 Oct 2010
Posts: 16
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| Posted: Fri Apr 22, 2011 3:11 pm Post subject: |
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| I'm a newly-qualified teacher. Just accepted a job in HCMC and will be arriving mid May. Considering I'm paying about 60% of my salary on accomodation in Brighton. I'll welcome having to only pay around 30% when I move. I might be able to buy new clothes! Flip! Considering I enjoyed the stress and pain of the Celta, I have a feeling things are going to be alright. |
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I'm With Stupid
Joined: 03 Sep 2010
Posts: 432
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| Posted: Fri Apr 22, 2011 5:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Skyblue2 wrote: |
| I'm With Stupid wrote: |
| Skyblue2 wrote: |
| You may have to do your own legwork. And whatever accommodation will be overpriced (foreigner price) and eat up 1/3 of your salary. |
If your accommodation is eating up a third of your salary in Vietnam, then [...] you're living by yourself in an expensive apartment, in which case, good for you, but it's hardly an accurate reflection of the cost of living. And sharing an apartment isn't exactly an unusual living situation for adults in a big city. |
Maybe it's just me, but I think roommates are for students and prison inmates. And I don't want to live in a cramped bedsit. I want to be able to walk around in my boxers, put my feet up, and watch what I want on my own plasma screen with a pizza box on my beer belly and a bottle of Jack D at my side. So decent accommodation, with modern fixtures and fittings, is expensive relative to salary. If you're a gap-year kiddie or a recent grad who just wants to "experience" Southeast Asia, it might be OK for you. |
I don't think decent accommodation with modern fixtures and fittings is expensive relative to salary, unless you choose to live on your own. There are plenty of brand new places in D2, D4 and D7 that come in under $300 per person. There aren't many other places where someone can do a job with fairly modest academic requirements and afford to live in an apartment with a swimming pool in the biggest city in the country, and still have about 3/4 of their take-home salary left over. But the fact that people can choose to work less than a full schedule, live on your own and still have a decent chunk of your salary left over at the end of the month is surely testament that teachers don't have it too bad here? |
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GemGem
Joined: 16 Oct 2010
Posts: 13
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| Posted: Fri Apr 22, 2011 8:41 pm Post subject: |
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Hey guys,
Been reading this thread with interest as I'm also heading out to HCMC mid-May, really looking forward to it! And yes, I know it will be tough - moving anywhere new is - especially when it's going to be so different to UK life, but hey ho is my motto - everywhere has downsides - it's just a case of how much you let them bother you.
It may have changed, it may not be the "golden age" etc etc but that's all relative surely and relatively Vietnam is still going to be a fantastic place to live and work in - personally I can't wait!
Soooo I'm hoping before I get out there next month some of you expert ex pats may be able to offer some expert advice - I'm really into running, also want to carry on my interest in literature, maybe join a book club?, LOVE jazz music and would like to take up some kind of (very very) amateur art interest - any suggestions or contacts much appreciated!
Gem |
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Joew55
Joined: 15 Apr 2011
Posts: 5
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| Posted: Sat Apr 23, 2011 12:44 am Post subject: |
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| on the whole, I think Vietnam seems like a good option anyway. Is there much of a football culture or places to play 5 a side? Can you get a decent steak there? After 3 years living in Argentina this is quite important! |
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1st Sgt Welsh
Joined: 13 Dec 2010
Posts: 946
Location: Bandar Seri Begawan, Brunei
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| Posted: Sat Apr 23, 2011 5:33 am Post subject: |
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| I'm With Stupid wrote: |
I don't think decent accommodation with modern fixtures and fittings is expensive relative to salary, unless you choose to live on your own. There are plenty of brand new places in D2, D4 and D7 that come in under $300 per person. There aren't many other places where someone can do a job with fairly modest academic requirements and afford to live in an apartment with a swimming pool in the biggest city in the country, and still have about 3/4 of their take-home salary left over. But the fact that people can choose to work less than a full schedule, live on your own and still have a decent chunk of your salary left over at the end of the month is surely testament that teachers don't have it too bad here? |
Seconded.
| GemGem wrote: |
Soooo I'm hoping before I get out there next month some of you expert ex pats may be able to offer some expert advice - I'm really into running, also want to carry on my interest in literature, maybe join a book club?, LOVE jazz music and would like to take up some kind of (very very) amateur art interest - any suggestions or contacts much appreciated! |
For running, there is the 'drinking club with a running problem':
http://www.saigonh3.com/
Don't know much about literature here but there was a discussion on this board a while ago on creative writing. Some of those posters may know more about book clubs (might be an idea to send them a PM):
http://forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewtopic.php?t=81429
In regards to jazz there is a jazz club in Le Loi Street, District 1. Never been there myself so don't know how good it is:
http://www.concierge.com/travelguide/hochiminhcity/nightlife/42382
| Joew55 wrote: |
Is there much of a football culture or places to play 5 a side? Can you get a decent steak there? After 3 years living in Argentina this is quite important! |
Football is very popular here so you I can't see you having a problem finding games (I'm not that into soccer myself, but I know people who are and they pay 5 a side games every week). Probably best to wait until you are working here and then ask your fellow teachers. The local 'beefsteak' meals are everyone and are cheap, but the beef is not very good quality (tastes quite nice with gravy though). A lot of the better restaurants import steaks from New Zealand and Australia and, although it is more expensive, it's much nicer. Around $8 and up will get you a decent steak meal. |
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GemGem
Joined: 16 Oct 2010
Posts: 13
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| Posted: Sat Apr 23, 2011 6:21 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks Sgt - helpful info as ever! 
Also had a quick query about travel insurance. I'm flying out on a one way ticket as not sure what I'll want to be doing in 12 months. Most annual travel insurance policies only cover trips with a return or open ticket.....
Anyone have any advice on any providers who do cover one way or any suggestions for alternatives?
Cheers! |
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