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xiao51



Joined: 06 Feb 2009
Posts: 208

PostPosted: Sun Nov 07, 2010 1:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tretyakovskii wrote:
Thanks for your thoughts, and comments. I'm aware that internet use is monitored, and have had depth conversations, face to face, with Chinese Nationals who were summoned to the PSB to explain themselves over one or more messages they sent abroad.

However, this is the sort of thing I would never consider getting permission for, as that would convert it into an official act and require everyone to sign off on it: having nothing to gain by approving it, I'd expect one or more to refuse to approve it.

For those who might choose to go ahead with a project of this sort, I'd put it in the category of "it's easier to apologize, than to get permission". That has been the case everywhere I've worked, and I've never had to apologize for anything, as I've never even gotten to the stage of being questioned about anything I've done.

China, for me, proved to be the least problematic of anywhere I've lived and worked, but there are no guarantees in life, for anyone. It didn't cross my mind to do an exchange of this sort while I was there, so I don't know how it might have gone, nor did I work in a university, so I don't know any of the special characteristics of that work.

The video that I conceive is innocuous, but I recognize that others might think it otherwise.


7969 has touched upon very, very problematic issue, to begin with.

Another, to the OP -- A Chinese national wouldn't be summoned to the PSB -- the PSB would pay a visit.. That is how things work in China for the Chinese and such visits are sometimes cordial, sometimes very direct. A foreign teacher would be summoned to the PSB, however, after his or her school had been notified and for a given the foreign teacher would at least loose his or her job and might suffer worse, like deportation.

So I was shocked, really so, when you write, as I understand it, rather implicitly, that you intend to just skirt the law and apologize later. You are placing a terribly big onus upon a foreign teacher or even a Chinese national just in order to have this video conference call or whatever.

And at least here on the China part of this Board, there tends to be zero tolerance for suggesting or writing things which cross a legal line in China.
And forgive me, but the foreign teachers are not only the ones who read Dave's, if you catch my meaning.
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7969



Joined: 26 Mar 2003
Posts: 5782
Location: Coastal Guangdong

PostPosted: Sun Nov 07, 2010 1:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

xiao51 wrote:
Another, to the OP -- A Chinese national wouldn't be summoned to the PSB -- the PSB would pay a visit.. That is how things work in China for the Chinese and such visits are sometimes cordial, sometimes very direct.

historically these visits come at night-time. and yes, as xiao51 notes, they can be very direct, but only after tea is consumed.
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Steve C.



Joined: 05 Nov 2010
Posts: 11

PostPosted: Sun Nov 07, 2010 3:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think some folk are a bit too paranoid.

There have been video's posted on Dave's made by foreign "teachers" in their classes and most folk commented that they liked the video's. I wonder if they were deported or even visited by the PSB?

The name Jorgensen comes to mind.

Here you go -

https://forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewtopic.php?t=69223&highlight=video

I think that guy is speaking Geechee!

If the link doesn't work, simply do a Search using the word "video" in The China Job-Related or broad Asia forum. I think it was on page 5 or 6.

"How to Manage a Classroom" by e-jorgensen
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Tretyakovskii



Joined: 14 Aug 2009
Posts: 462
Location: Cancun, Mexico

PostPosted: Sun Nov 07, 2010 2:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
...you intend to just skirt the law and apologize later.

I intend no such thing, nor do I suggest anyone else do so: I'm aware of no law that would be violated by this activity. Please quote and give your source for the Chinese Law you think forbids making a video, and transmitting it abroad (without regard to content, or intent).

My comments merely addressed the possibility that, after the fact, questions might be asked- either by the university administration or the authorities who are charged with maintaining order- and it would be their legitimate right to raise questions, if they chose to. I've lived and worked in Communist and post-Communist countries for much of my life, and recognize they have their job to do, just as I have mine, as a teacher.

I did as Scott C suggested, and searched Dave's for videos depicting students/student life/foreign teachers, etc., and did indeed find videos from China posted to the internet (I actually think it must be a rather commonplace event, looking at other video hosting sites from China, as well); however, the specific one he referred to was taken down by the user, after it had been roundly mocked by posters to this forum.

The act of producing videos is a very well established tool in the teaching of English, and students generally are enthusiastic about doing them. It's fun for the students who make them, as well as for the students who view them, later.
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xiao51



Joined: 06 Feb 2009
Posts: 208

PostPosted: Mon Nov 08, 2010 5:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tretyakovskii wrote:
Quote:
...you intend to just skirt the law and apologize later.

I intend no such thing, nor do I suggest anyone else do so: I'm aware of no law that would be violated by this activity. Please quote and give your source for the Chinese Law you think forbids making a video, and transmitting it abroad (without regard to content, or intent).

My comments merely addressed the possibility that, after the fact, questions might be asked- either by the university administration or the authorities who are charged with maintaining order- and it would be their legitimate right to raise questions, if they chose to. I've lived and worked in Communist and post-Communist countries for much of my life, and recognize they have their job to do, just as I have mine, as a teacher.

I did as Scott C suggested, and searched Dave's for videos depicting students/student life/foreign teachers, etc., and did indeed find videos from China posted to the internet (I actually think it must be a rather commonplace event, looking at other video hosting sites from China, as well); however, the specific one he referred to was taken down by the user, after it had been roundly mocked by posters to this forum.

The act of producing videos is a very well established tool in the teaching of English, and students generally are enthusiastic about doing them. It's fun for the students who make them, as well as for the students who view them, later.


There are various issues here which need some elucidation.

1. You were asking someone to film students at a Chinese university either involved in a class lecture, or giving a tour of their university, or the like, items touching upon university-life, etc., etc.

2. You mention that you "understand" China. I am sincerely happy for this. Then please understand many of the unspoken things of Chinese life, such as what can-and-cannot be done, what can-and-cannot be filmed, etc,. etc. China is not an Anglo-Saxon nation where all items are neatly and clearly codified and sanctified and then given Royal Assent, so to speak. There are things that are simply "understood" in China, that exist as lines in the sand, and when these lines-in-the-sand are crossed, sanctions occur.

3. It would never occur to many foreigners here to involve university students in a filmed discussion of a class, or in the course of a university visit, or like items, that involved a formal university backdrop, particularly, as I mentioned again, and as others have said, when this video is intended for overseas viewing. It is just a little too p*litical and a little too risky. In any case, all I can say is that for those who doubt, let them try. The onus would be upon them, and surely not us. There is no paranoia here, just prudent, prudent thinking, very prudent thinking, based upon a very real and present and silent understanding of how things work.

4. Regarding videos on the Internet, I have no idea. Youtube is NOT available here in China and the Chinese equivalents are rather carefully scrutinized for content. There is a video site on QQ but if you browse through it, you will notice how bland the postings are.

I personally wish you much good fortune in this endeavour; I, for one, would simply completely shy away from it.
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Steve_McQueen



Joined: 04 Dec 2009
Posts: 37

PostPosted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 12:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You might want to consider doing something like this:

http://www.nctasia.org/

I run a program at my public high school here in Seoul. It's been a success. I don't know if they do schools in Mexico though. PM me for more information.
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Pops



Joined: 06 Nov 2010
Posts: 2

PostPosted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 1:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting.

I wonder if it could actually work??

My money is on "YES".

I'd love to see a movie about life in Mexico. I'd prefer to see more of regular daily life in Cancun or Montererey than the beach bunnies/purveyors.
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Steve C.



Joined: 05 Nov 2010
Posts: 11

PostPosted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 2:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I doubt the Mexican kids could even understand a typical day in a Chinese university students life. How many "meetings" must they attend each day?

http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XMTgwNjY2OTI=.html

http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XMTgwMDE3OTY=.html

1 minute and 22 seconds sums it up.

Good Luck.

http://www.kipling.org.uk/poems_if.htm
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Tretyakovskii



Joined: 14 Aug 2009
Posts: 462
Location: Cancun, Mexico

PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2011 10:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One or more Chinese university classes have now seen the video prepared by my students.

If any of the readers of this forum would like to encourage their students to exchange a video depicting their life as students in China for one my students have prepared, I'd be happy to hear from you.
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Happy Everyday



Joined: 09 Feb 2007
Posts: 268

PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2011 11:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm interested! For starters, a simple introduction is good. Would you be interested in expanding the videos? For example, who can create the best student short film?
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Riviello



Joined: 12 Apr 2011
Posts: 66

PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2011 12:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice idea.

I'm game. If all goes according to plan, next semester I'll contact you.

Perhaps we could have a cup of Joe and talk about it? If we met in Holland we could even smoke a bowl.

Yunqi
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Tretyakovskii



Joined: 14 Aug 2009
Posts: 462
Location: Cancun, Mexico

PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2011 4:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

About 15 of my students participated in making the video, which shows life on campus and off campus of the typical student.

The equipment was not high tech, they just used their cell phones. The video, in its final form, runs about 20 minutes.
_______________________

I would be interested in arranging student exchanges of emails, as well, for those who might think this could be a useful activity for their students. (I know it would be for mine, who would benefit from contact with young people from other parts of the world.)

More can be done, but requires pairing of classes and students, and I would welcome offers to do that. My students range in skills from pre-intermediate to high intermediate, with most somewhere in the middle.
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Happy Everyday



Joined: 09 Feb 2007
Posts: 268

PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2011 12:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

@Rivello -- if you were an instructor at Oaksterdam University, you could smoke a bowl *with* your students Cool
http://www.oaksterdamuniversity.com/faculty.html
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Riviello



Joined: 12 Apr 2011
Posts: 66

PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2011 4:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tre...

When I first came to China I set up a class website and discussion forum, similar to Dave's, as well as an e-mail exchange program with a friend who teaches Tourism/Hotel Management at the University of South Carolina.

The site only had 3 members - myself, my USA Professor friend and my Mother.

None of my Chinese university students joined or expressed interest in the e-mail, cultural exchange, program.

Like what Steve C. above said, the students here do have a lot of meetings. But, they also find time to play computer games etc...

I'm not sure about the educational system in Mexico, but China is a lot different than the system in the USA. I'm not sure about other countries, such as the UK, OZ, NZ, SA and Canada. But, based on my interaction with teachers from those countries, I think our systems and "college life" is basically the same.

Briefly, elementary students here begin the school day around 7am doing exercises. At 7:30am the stand at attention while the flag is raised before eating breakfast. At 8am they go to their homeroom and classes begin shortly thereafter. The school day ends around 5pm. They do take an approximately 2 hour break at lunchtime. Sort of a Siesta!

China is the only place that I know of that has boarding Kindergartens! A lot of the elementary & high school students live at school. The usually go home Friday night and return either Sunday night or early Monday morning.

In the USA, 99.9% of the kids live at home until they go to college.

College/University is very different than that it the USA and I assume Mexico as well.

The kids here take a test, similar to the SAT in the USA, which basically determines where they will go to school and what they will study. Generally typing, the kids can't apply to a prefered public university or choose their major. Private colleges are a bit different, but basically the same. If the kid is good with numbers, they will be told that they will major in Business even though they would prefer to study Psychology or whatever.

When their Freshman year begins, they will be assigned to a class/group. The group will attend all of the same classes together. They are given their schedules and can't choose to take the required classes at a time or a teacher they prefer. In the USA, we could choose times, days and teachers. We did not have every class with the same students.

Basically, the group becomes the kids "family" for the next 4 years. Actually, 3.5. The last semester is generally spent working/writing a "thesis" about their major. That is not required in the USA and seems like a good idea to me.

As written here on Dave's numerous times, university students in China are like high school kids in the USA. When in high school, we had keg parties etc.. Have you seen "American Pie"? That movie depicts the truth about American youth.

Some of the university students here will drink beer and smoke cigarettes, but, not quite to the extent as those in the USA. Forget about bowls in Holland, lines in Bogota or other mind altering substances in SF or anywhere in the USA.

I remember being offered speed when I was 10 years old. I guess it is a good thing about China.

On the other hand, the boys here hold hands and rest their heads on each others shoulders??? They do like girls though. China has a very conservative culture. At times it is refreshing, but, there are a lot of things "foreign" to me. They belong in the "Culture Shock" thread.

Either way, I think the video and e-mail exchange ideas are great and hope to reciprocate next semester.
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Tretyakovskii



Joined: 14 Aug 2009
Posts: 462
Location: Cancun, Mexico

PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2011 12:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Riviello, others, will your universities be in session this summer? Ours runs twelve months a year (with breaks at Christmas, Easter and a brief break at the end of July).
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