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Mamainak
Joined: 27 May 2011
Posts: 31
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 Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 5:06 pm Post subject: |
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| dutchman wrote: |
| Perhaps you can try your luck in Latin America... |
Perhaps I will  |
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Teacher in Rome
Joined: 09 Jul 2003
Posts: 1286
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| Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 6:09 pm Post subject: |
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Fair point about Cambridge Proficiency level. Most teachers struggle with some of the language there (lord knows I do!) and as far as I'm concerned, if you can pass Proficiency, you're already way beyond most native speakers in terms of writing skills, grammar analysis, linguistic flexibility etc.
Shame that the EU is out - esp as Croatia is so close to Italy. Can I ask why you don't want to teach in Croatia? |
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Mamainak
Joined: 27 May 2011
Posts: 31
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| Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 6:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Teacher in Rome wrote: |
Fair point about Cambridge Proficiency level. Most teachers struggle with some of the language there (lord knows I do!) and as far as I'm concerned, if you can pass Proficiency, you're already way beyond most native speakers in terms of writing skills, grammar analysis, linguistic flexibility etc.
Shame that the EU is out - esp as Croatia is so close to Italy. Can I ask why you don't want to teach in Croatia? |
Hello professore in Roma (I speak some Italian, don't judge me!),
Well, beside the fact that economical situation in Croatia is not great and finding a job is very hard, I don't want to go back home because I'm afraid it might be a dead end and I will inevitably end up living with my mum again! After 2.5 years of independent living in a city such as London, my own town seems even smaller than it was before.
I need cultural diversity and a lot more open-mindedness. Not to mention that I'd love to travel!
Last edited by Mamainak on Wed Jun 01, 2011 6:36 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Mamainak
Joined: 27 May 2011
Posts: 31
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| Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 6:28 pm Post subject: |
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| I just realised I might mention that I have Cambridge Proficiency and over 2 years of experience working as a child-minder. Could that be an advantage? |
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Teacher in Rome
Joined: 09 Jul 2003
Posts: 1286
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| Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 6:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| I need cultural diversity and a lot more open-mindedness. |
E allora, forse l'Italia non � per te!
It is a massive shame that you can't work here. CELTA and experience with kids - you'd easily find work here (if you legally could, of course).
I've never visited Croatia, but as you probably know, it's hugely popular with Italian visitors. My grandparents very nearly bought a house there (or further up, in Slovenia) but then some law was passed making it impossible for foreigners to own property. They visited every year for years though!
Good luck in wherever you decide to teach! |
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Mamainak
Joined: 27 May 2011
Posts: 31
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| Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 7:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Teacher in Rome wrote: |
| Quote: |
| I need cultural diversity and a lot more open-mindedness. |
E allora, forse l'Italia non � per te!
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Hahaha, yes, Italians are all about Italy!  Nothing else competes! What I mean is...Italy is at least more forward thinking than let's say, China or Middle East.
It would be nice to work in Italy because it's in Europe, it's Mediterranean and it's close to home so that my family doesn't freak out and call me every day  (it's tough being the only child)
I'm from Split, Central Dalmatia. You should definitely come this summer We have flood of Italians for Ferragosto, you can barely walk on the street with all the Italians blocking the tiny alleys. They decide they need to have a conversation in the middle of the street and don't realise there are people trying to pass around them, lol. |
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dutchman
Joined: 10 Mar 2010
Posts: 84
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| Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 7:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Mamainak wrote: |
| dutchman wrote: |
| Perhaps you can try your luck in Latin America... |
Perhaps I will |
Once you get a couple of years experience under your belt, you can apply for an MA in the UK. They take people without undergraduate degrees if you have experience and a teaching qualification like Celta. Then you would qualify for better jobs. |
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mozzar
Joined: 16 May 2009
Posts: 339
Location: France
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| Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 9:13 pm Post subject: |
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| I know some language academies in Madrid don't require native speakers, only native level speakers. The degree probably wouldn't be too much of a problem provided you had other experience or did well in the interview. |
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spiral78
Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 11534
Location: On a Short Leash
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| Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 9:19 pm Post subject: |
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The OP hasn't got an EU member citizenship, so much of Europe's off limits.
This is a pity, as many European language schools don't demand native speakers, though they do demand qualifications, which the OP has (at entry level). |
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Mamainak
Joined: 27 May 2011
Posts: 31
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| Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 9:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Yeah...I see EU as European continent's high society, closing their doors to others and keeping all the fun inside. |
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wiganer
Joined: 22 Sep 2010
Posts: 189
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| Posted: Thu Jun 02, 2011 1:07 am Post subject: Re: What are my chances of getting a job? Doors seem closed. |
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| Mamainak wrote: |
Month of training is better than nothing, right? |
It is better than absolutely nothing but a word to the wise, I have been doing this job years and I am still learning. A CELTA in the grand scheme of things is nothing.
| Quote: |
| And most of the people are expected to go and teach straight after completing the course, so it should count for something. Or do you think it's different for non-native speakers? |
No, if they are a non-native speaker or not - anyone who wants to be a teacher should at least have a degree.
| Quote: |
| It's not like I came to learn English on that course, I left it with pretty much the same amount of knowledge I came with, I just learned teaching techniques. I also have Cambridge Proficiency to prove my level of English. |
I am sure your English level is good, I work alongside an Armenian teacher here in China and his English is excellent, he is also very highly qualified which helps.
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| Do I get bonus points if I say I know what idioms, prepositions and modals are and can explain all of the tenses? From my experience, most of the native speakers don't. |
This is the favourite trump card of all non-native speakers and I am going to say 'so what?' I have a linguistics degree and was taught about grammar at university (along with most of my native speaking classmates) and what I found was that once a native speaker learned about the grammar side of the language then it was very easy for them to teach it.
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| I'm not trying to demean native speakers, I just don't think it's correct to assume that native speakers can teach you English simply because they are native speakers. |
I think they are in a better position to teach English than a non-native speaker and secondly, just because you are a non-native speaker who can teach grammar doesn't mean you can teach English. I know a load of Chinese teachers of English who can teach grammar all day but have them teach a oral English class and they fall to pieces.
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| And native Japanese speaker vs. Swedish Japanese speaker: I'd hire the one who is better able to teach it. |
If they both had the same qualifications - who would that be?
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| What's the point of having a native speaker when they can't transfer their knowledge? The advantage of native speakers is the authentic pronunciation and they won't make mistakes, though. Unless, of course, they speak in dialect or colloquial language. |
English is a world language, again, if you are learning English then it is better for the student to get used to learning about the different accents that make up the English language. Students often blame the teacher (well, they do here in Asia) for their own inadequacies because the teacher is from New Zealand or Ireland or wherever.
And I would like to add, the other reason that students prefer native speakers is because students usually have a big interest in the culture of the language they are trying to learn - I get more questions about 'In England, what do people think of..' than I do about grammar points. I can answer questions about culture and way of life that a non-native speaker can't. |
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Teacher in Rome
Joined: 09 Jul 2003
Posts: 1286
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| Posted: Thu Jun 02, 2011 9:07 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| You should definitely come this summer. We have flood of Italians for Ferragosto, you can barely walk on the street with all the Italians blocking the tiny alleys. They decide they need to have a conversation in the middle of the street and don't realise there are people trying to pass around them, lol. |
Y'know - this doesn't sound my idea of a relaxing holiday! |
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dutchman
Joined: 10 Mar 2010
Posts: 84
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| Posted: Thu Jun 02, 2011 9:48 am Post subject: Re: What are my chances of getting a job? Doors seem closed. |
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| wiganer wrote: |
This is the favourite trump card of all non-native speakers and I am going to say 'so what?' I have a linguistics degree and was taught about grammar at university (along with most of my native speaking classmates) and what I found was that once a native speaker learned about the grammar side of the language then it was very easy for them to teach it. |
Native speakers know the destination, but not the terrain that has to be crossed to get there; even if they have a degree in linguistics, they themselves have not travelled the same route.
| wiganer wrote: |
And I would like to add, the other reason that students prefer native speakers is because students usually have a big interest in the culture of the language they are trying to learn - I get more questions about 'In England, what do people think of..' than I do about grammar points. I can answer questions about culture and way of life that a non-native speaker can't. |
Achieving a native-like competence in a language is difficult, even if one lives in the target language country for 10 years. But getting familiar with the target language culture is not difficult at all. If a non-native speaker of English completes his or her MA degree in the UK, and travels around in the country, while his or her knowledge of the British culture would not be perfect, I presume it would be enough to answer the questions students may ask in the class. |
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naturegirl321
Joined: 04 May 2003
Posts: 9041
Location: home sweet home
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| Posted: Thu Jun 02, 2011 11:26 am Post subject: |
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| Mamainak wrote: |
Thanks everyone for your replies, I'll keep looking.
Could you tell me some of the good websites, where I might actually find ads that don't require degree or native-speakers? I'm checking tefl.com, esljobsworld.com and dave's esl cafe job board.
I'm not insisting on super paid jobs but I'm afraid I wouldn't like to be paid misery (just like anyone). But if I was in a different situation (i.e. not having debts) I'd go anywhere, just to travel and get experience. Since I'd need to send some money home I'd need a decently paid job. :/ |
It's double the points against you for not having a degree and not being a native speaker. Those sites you listed are among the most popular. Maybe try seriousteachers, the chronicle, higheredjobs, ibo, and tesol
Honestly, it's goign to be hard, but not impossible. Any chances of you finishing your degree in the UK? You could teach PT at a language institute there and get experience at the same time.
Or maybe look at being an au pair.
Though I agree that it's not fair that employers favour native speakers, espeically since the non native ones had to work at the language, many of the adverts you come across require two things
1. native speaker with passport from English speaking country
2. degree from an English speaking country |
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wiganer
Joined: 22 Sep 2010
Posts: 189
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| Posted: Thu Jun 02, 2011 11:29 am Post subject: Re: What are my chances of getting a job? Doors seem closed. |
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| dutchman wrote: |
Native speakers know the destination, but not the terrain that has to be crossed to get there; even if they have a degree in linguistics, they themselves have not travelled the same route. |
Course we have! Especially us who have learned another language which many of us have. Learning English doesn't require a unique set of skills that separates someone learning Chinese for example.
| Quote: |
| Achieving a native-like competence in a language is difficult, even if one lives in the target language country for 10 years. But getting familiar with the target language culture is not difficult at all. If a non-native speaker of English completes his or her MA degree in the UK, and travels around in the country, while his or her knowledge of the British culture would not be perfect, I presume it would be enough to answer the questions students may ask in the class. |
You might get to know the culture a lot better than you did back home but you will never gain the mindset and the way of thinking of someone living in your adopted country - this is just as true for someone from England living in the United States as it is for a Japanese person living in England.
Do you think anyone wants to know what someone from Croatia who has lived in England for a few years thinks about the royal family or about Britain's role in the EU? |
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