|
Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Students and Teachers from Around the World!"
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
nateliu99
Joined: 22 May 2009
Posts: 72
|
 Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 2:43 am Post subject: Another way to get a university experience besides Westgate? |
 |
|
I am a certified teacher teaching in Taiwan right now.
I had a new job lined up, but a few days ago, the new Principal rescinded my offer after telling me for a month that I was guaranteed employment. At this point my options are few, because I am leaving the country in a month
I am prepared to just go home and find a job and leave the whole ESL thing behind me after a year stint in China, and a year in Taiwan. But Westgate's offer of a university teaching experience is intriguing to me. I also like the short stint, as 3-5 months later I could return to America and start looking for a PhD program or go to interviews if I get them.
However, I have read a number of negative opinions about Westgate, but it seems to be a really convenient program for my situation. My question is, are there any other better options (as far as pay, treatment, working hours) for a person in my situation on this short of notice?
Westgate offered me a job last year, and they have my file already and told me that I just need to update it and they may be able to find me something for the fall.
Please give me your advice, as it sounds a number of you have worked in university positions before.
Thanks! |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Glenski
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
|
| Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 6:29 am Post subject: |
|
|
Bear in mind that Westgate's "university experience" is far from reality.
Yes, you are on campus. (In fact, you have to stay on campus all day.
Yes, you teach university students. (Whether the classes are for credit may vary, AFAIK.)
Beyond that, you are not really a part of the uni "experience".
Your boss is Westgate, not the uni.
| Quote: |
| My question is, are there any other better options (as far as pay, treatment, working hours) for a person in my situation on this short of notice? |
You want work practically immediately, in the middle of the school year.
You want better then Westgate's salary (260,000-275,000 yen/month).
You want airfare paid, as Westgate does.
You want short-term work with visa sponsorship.
Nope. Not much of a chance of that. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
nateliu99
Joined: 22 May 2009
Posts: 72
|
| Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 3:34 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Well, the salary is ok in my opinion, the housing situation for 81,000 yen a month is a bit iffy, but i guess for a short term housing situation, what can you expect?
I was more thinking about the working conditions, which seem to vary depending on which thread you read.
But thanks Glenski, I'll take it into consideration |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Glenski
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
|
| Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 7:18 am Post subject: |
|
|
Depending on where one lives and what sort of accommodation it is, 81,000 yen/month is pretty close to normal. I usually quote people 50K - 80K as an average.
As for the work conditions, I've given you some differences already.
You are a dispatched worker for Westgate. As a uni employee, you are contracted by the uni.
You are sent to a school by Westgate and given lessons to teach. At a uni, you have more control over what you teach, and your lessons are all accredited. Plus, you don't have that Westgate chat session, whatever it's called.
You are given a classroom for the Westgate dispatch job. If you are FT at a uni, you usually have your own office, research budget, access to copy machine, phone, etc. Even some PT people share an office sometimes.
Uni employees are involved in committee work, proofreading, entrance exams, etc. Westgate employees work for Westgate and only teach lessons.
FT uni teachers often/usually have parking spaces of their own. Westgate teachers fend for themselves.
Depending on who you talk to, uni teachers work legally, whereas Westgate teachers are illegal dispatched teachers.
http://www.generalunion.org/News/703 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
nateliu99
Joined: 22 May 2009
Posts: 72
|
| Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 8:02 am Post subject: |
|
|
I see. So when the students come to the campus to take the Westgate class, is it a class that they paid for that doesn't fulfill their university requirements?
Well, it sounds like Westgate is not exactly the ideal situation to be working in, but at this point I feel like I have missed all the deadlines for anything else. I just lost my job for next year about 5 days ago, so my mind is feeling really scattered about what I want to do. I love Taiwan, but it seems lately I have been having more of a problem here than it is worth. I honestly didn't plan on returning to America so soon, especially with no job or further education program lined up.
With all that in mind, maybe this Westgate thing would not be too bad for me. It will at least give me experience working with college age kids. I am considering getting a PhD in the future to work with teachers. And Westgate is pretty much the only Japan program to give me a shot |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Glenski
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
|
| Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 12:16 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| nateliu99 wrote: |
| I am considering getting a PhD in the future to work with teachers. And Westgate is pretty much the only Japan program to give me a shot |
Don't be desperate, but I realize your feelings in these tight times. Just trying to inform you about the differences between Westgate and real university jobs. Want a foot in the door? Go ahead and take the job, but it is not a real uni position.
And, unless you get a renewal of the job, you are going to have to leave very soon, or at least start looking for another job almost as soon as you start that one. Housing, too. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
nateliu99
Joined: 22 May 2009
Posts: 72
|
| Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 2:25 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Yeah I appreciate the advice, it is really honest
I guess maybe at the very least I would get a good chance to live in Japan, even if only for a short while, and get an opportunity to work with college students, even if not in a real college class
Well, and the fact that I don't actually have anything lined up here in Taiwan or back home in America right now.
The renewal thing is something I am thinking about too. On the one hand, if I end up getting some interviews for programs, it would be nice to be in America and ready for them. However, I might not have anything to do or any way to make money in the meantime. It seems right now, there is no perfect situation given my circumstances, but I hope it all works out for the best |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
think_balance
Joined: 02 Jul 2008
Posts: 67
Location: Japan
|
| Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 4:31 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Glenski wrote: |
| nateliu99 wrote: |
| I am considering getting a PhD in the future to work with teachers. And Westgate is pretty much the only Japan program to give me a shot |
Don't be desperate, but I realize your feelings in these tight times. Just trying to inform you about the differences between Westgate and real university jobs. Want a foot in the door? Go ahead and take the job, but it is not a real uni position.
And, unless you get a renewal of the job, you are going to have to leave very soon, or at least start looking for another job almost as soon as you start that one. Housing, too. |
Correct me if I'm wrong, Glenski, but doesn't WG give a one year (sometimes three year) working visa? If so, and he took this job, after three to five months, he's still got that visa and he's got boots on the ground in Japan which gives him a little bit of an advantage with companies who don't want to have to sponsor a visa. And with luck, within those three - five months, he'll have made some contacts as well for a better job.
Additionally, couldn't he pass on the corporate housing (or say, use it for one month), and find a place of his own? Then he'll be following one of the top rules I hear: not letting your housing be tied to your employer.
I read a lot of horror stories about WG and I would never make them my first choice.
However, if it came down to it, here's how I'd see it:
1. They pay for my airfare.
2. They cover my housing, so the start up costs and hassles are greatly reduced.
3. Work visa in hand, boots on the ground.
4. The contract is short, so if it's horrible, I'll be free to look for other jobs rather quickly.
Is it far from ideal? From what I've read on the boards, yes. But it's a nice leg up if there are few other options.
Just my .02 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mr_Monkey
Joined: 11 Mar 2009
Posts: 661
Location: Kyuuuuuushuuuuuuu
|
| Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 4:34 pm Post subject: |
|
|
A good friend of mine from my MA program in the UK had been workiong for Westgate on its university courses before taking the course.
His Japanese "university" experience definitely helped him get a good (though limited-term) contract at a Japanese university known to specialise in foreign languages. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
seklarwia
Joined: 20 Jan 2009
Posts: 1546
Location: Monkey onsen, Nagano
|
| Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 9:42 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| think_balance wrote: |
| Correct me if I'm wrong, Glenski, but doesn't WG give a one year (sometimes three year) working visa? |
One year? - Yes
Three year? - Not likely. Why would immigration ever grant a 3 year visa for a 3-5 month contract? You do realise that WG has no control over the duration of visa you are granted, right?
| Quote: |
| If so, and he took this job, after three to five months, he's still got that visa and he's got boots on the ground in Japan which gives him a little bit of an advantage with companies who don't want to have to sponsor a visa. And with luck, within those three - five months, he'll have made some contacts as well for a better job. |
On WG you have no time to do any real contact making or job hunting/networking due to the long hours and commute times. Unless you have a really sparkly personality and are able to stand out against all the other WG dispatchees who came before you, you may find that your campus staff don't really take you seriously and/or won't want to bother getting to know you - well why would they take the time to become friendly with someone who is going to be gone in a few of months?
But yes, being in Japan with a visa may give an advantage if you are here and able to job hunt during hiring seasons. One problem with WG is that during the contract people have little time to do much job hunting and after the contract there simply may not be any jobs on offer.
| Quote: |
| Additionally, couldn't he pass on the corporate housing (or say, use it for one month), and find a place of his own? Then he'll be following one of the top rules I hear: not letting your housing be tied to your employer. |
Umm... no.
With WG you are required to stay in their accomodation for the duration of the contract. It means even if you managed to find your own accomodation (not easy without a solid income since you likely won't have a guarantor and no guarantor company is going to touch you whilst on such a short contract) you are still going to have to pay WG their 81,000/month on top of whatever your new place costs.
Besides, why would you wish to fork out for set up costs during a WG contract? You don't even know if you are going to manage to get a job within commuting distance of the new apartment and may end up having to fork yet again to move to a new place once(/if) you find a new job.
I'm not saying that WG is a bad way to get yourself here. I'm just pointing out that there are flaws in your rationale. If anyone accepted WG position based on the assumptions you are making, they would find themselves in for a horrible shock. Those who come in with their eyes open, determined and willing to sacrifice their minimal free time to finding a new position (and willing to accept regular entry level work - just saying since in the past I've read through threads where some WG people have thought that they were some how more than dispatch eikawa employees and believed that their WG experience entitled them to access to non-entry level positions) will in all likelyhood succeed. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Glenski
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
|
| Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 10:08 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| think_balance wrote: |
| Correct me if I'm wrong, Glenski, but doesn't WG give a one year (sometimes three year) working visa? If so, and he took this job, after three to five months, he's still got that visa and he's got boots on the ground in Japan which gives him a little bit of an advantage with companies who don't want to have to sponsor a visa. And with luck, within those three - five months, he'll have made some contacts as well for a better job. |
Yes, Westgate sponsors a work visa even though their initial contract is less than a year. I still don't know how that gets by immigration, but it does. When I wrote that he would "have to leave", I meant leave the school and apartment, not necessarily Japan. What you wrote above is more thorough.
The thing is, when one is working 5 days a week, Mon-Fri with such long hours and sitting in one place (the campus), networking is not as easy as it may seem.
| seklarwia wrote: |
| Unless you have a really sparkly personality and are able to stand out against all the other WG dispatchees who came before you, you may find that your campus staff don't really take you seriously and/or won't want to bother getting to know you |
Agreed. Moreover, if you are on campus and in the classroom 7 hours a day, there is no time to mingle and network with staff or teachers.
| Quote: |
| Additionally, couldn't he pass on the corporate housing (or say, use it for one month), and find a place of his own? |
I don't know what Westgate has for a housing policy. That is, I am not sure if you are forced to live in Westgate housing. They only say this on their site:
Westgate provides its instructors with studio-type apartment with basic furnishings (see below). The monthly rent amount, JPY 81,000, will be deducted from instructor's monthly salary, which also includes the utilities and monthly housing maintenance fee. Rent payment may be prorated for any partial employment period. In addition, Westgate leases and sublets housing to instructors, pays for the deposits, condominium costs, appliances and furnishings. Instructors agree to move out of the apartment on the last day of their employment contract.
The location of the apartment depends on which school each instructor is assigned to. All school placement decisions are made by Westgate.
http://www.westgate.co.jp/application/university.php/4
| Quote: |
However, if it came down to it, here's how I'd see it:
1. They pay for my airfare. |
Actually, they reimburse you for airfare in your first 2 paychecks from what I hear.
| Quote: |
| 2. They cover my housing, so the start up costs and hassles are greatly reduced. |
"Cover" means pays the key money, not rent.
Also, assuming they are willing to serve as a housing guarantor, it will be very hard for someone to land here with no place to stay, search while working, and get a new place totally furnished (typically, apartments have no appliances, furniture or even light fixtures, so one would have to scramble to get those things in an unknown territory, or take LeoPalace housing or a guest house).
EDIT:Ah, I see seklarwia has more information on this than I do. There ya go!
| Quote: |
| 4. The contract is short, so if it's horrible, I'll be free to look for other jobs rather quickly. |
As I wrote above, "free" is a relative word. Yes, once the contract is over, and you are kicked out of your apartment, you are free. IMO, only then can you actually pursue interviews with other employers because you will be working on campus during regular days and hours. If lucky, as seklarwia agrees, you might find something while you are still working for WC that is willing to interview you after your campus day or on Saturday. Fairly tight window of opportunity, IMO. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
think_balance
Joined: 02 Jul 2008
Posts: 67
Location: Japan
|
| Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 11:32 pm Post subject: |
|
|
[quote="seklarwia"]
| think_balance wrote: |
One year? - Yes
Three year? - Not likely.
|
I'd read a year or so ago that someone had been given a three year visa while working for them.
| Quote: |
| On WG you have no time to do any real contact making or job hunting/networking due to the long hours and commute times. |
Good point.
| Quote: |
| With WG you are required to stay in their accommodation for the duration of the contract�81,000/month |
That's a bit of a thinly veiled sham on their part.
And thanks for clarifying / correcting some of my thoughts. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mc
Joined: 20 Jan 2003
Posts: 90
Location: Aichi, Japan
|
| Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 7:06 am Post subject: |
|
|
| seklarwia wrote: |
Umm... no.
With WG you are required to stay in their accomodation for the duration of the contract. It means even if you managed to find your own accomodation (not easy without a solid income since you likely won't have a guarantor and no guarantor company is going to touch you whilst on such a short contract) you are still going to have to pay WG their 81,000/month on top of whatever your new place costs. |
I don't think that's true. I know somebody who has taught through WG and he did not have to live in one of their apartments (or pay the 81,000). Thing is, he was already established in Japan, had his own visa, etc. so maybe that makes a difference to them. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
seklarwia
Joined: 20 Jan 2009
Posts: 1546
Location: Monkey onsen, Nagano
|
| Posted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 9:25 am Post subject: |
|
|
| mc wrote: |
| I don't think that's true. I know somebody who has taught through WG and he did not have to live in one of their apartments (or pay the 81,000). Thing is, he was already established in Japan, had his own visa, etc. so maybe that makes a difference to them. |
I have seen cases where people made their own arrangements. But I've seen cases where WG seemed to push the accomodation quite adamently and claims that WG jacked up the rent (which would explain why they might be forcing the issue). And I've seen cases where WG have been unable to or refused to release placement details until very late in the game - something that would make finding your own place to stay quite difficult if not impossible - and then given this as justification as to why instructors must take their accomodation.
There could be legit reasons why WG might force the housing issue. One might be because of the commuting costs which they are covering... but 81,000 is a pretty high figure to be paying for a non-urban 1k Leopalace (style) place... I'm leaning towards believing that WG is making a small profit despite commuting costs by "encouraging" workers to take their accomodation.
And lets not forget this poster who did give me a giggle with his colourful (pun totally intended) way of asking about a certain housing stipulation: http://forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewtopic.php?t=86481
Not clear whether he was being made to their accomodation but that stipulation does make one thing clear; you can't simply move out of WG accomodation once you accept it as think_balance suggested. This does makes perfect sense (even if the rent deduction doesn't) since Leopalace (which seems to make up the bulk of what is offered) has a minimum term contract and/or requires notice before moving out/up front payment. If the intructor leaves the place early somebody has to foot the penalty costs or WG is left paying for a place that is unoccupied. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
This page is maintained by the one and only Dave Sperling.
Contact Dave's ESL Cafe
Copyright © 2018 Dave Sperling. All Rights Reserved.
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
