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Glenski
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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 Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2011 10:29 pm Post subject: |
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| ScottishGringo wrote: |
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| And, that last statement doesn't really endear you to most people who live and work abroad, either. |
Eh? |
You know what was meant.
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I think this was not mentioned in your Japan thread. You just wanted to get paid to live. How much are we talking here?
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About �100 per month in payments. |
I was thinking more in terms of overall debt. We don't know how long it will take you to pay off your debt with that rate.
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| Just like I do now in my current job, just like people all over the world do in their jobs every single day, just like all the dossers of the world out there are doing in their English teaching jobs, |
We can stop here. "Dossers" do not make up the majority of people on this forum, as you have obviously learned. Yes, the slackers exist, as do the merely interested in culture types. It appears from posts here that most of us don't have anything against people who want to test the waters in order to get their feet in the door and explore the country. However, they don't seem to want the profession given more black eyes by seeing people come with a totally negative attitude to the teaching side of visiting a country, such as you show.
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| Get over yourself and stop thinking your silly teaching English job needs to be taken so seriously. |
If it's so silly, why am I in high demand, well-liked and respected, and making money at it with a smile on my face? Yes, I like my job. Just so you know, I got into it from another totally different profession. Others may have intended to do TEFL from the start, but not me. I had a positive outlook from the start. Not tremendously so; I'd intended to teach for 1-2 years until I found something else. Life changed, and I've been at it, bettering myself and my students for almost 15 years now.
You seem lost in life and in a slump. It's your prerogative to sulk about it and look for something else (aimlessly, it seems, from the way you describe your situation). That, too, is your prerogative, but please don't come to a job site (teaching English or otherwise), tell people you don't give a damn about that line of work but instead want to use the job market (open to practically anyone, no real requirements for entry level jobs) to travel and live a lazy life, and then expect those same people to have positive thoughts about it. What did you expect when you wrote your OP, anyway?
Take the TEFL course you intended, to test the waters. See if it feels like you want to pursue it further. I honestly don't know why you would even take the course with the negative attitude towards teaching that you have. |
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Soupman
Joined: 06 Jun 2011
Posts: 23
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| Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2011 10:42 pm Post subject: |
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We�ve all met those overly enthusiastic teachers who couldn�t plan their way out of a phone booth and attract student complaints by the truckload. Meanwhile, comes the cynical hardcase, who can actually teach and get recognized as good by students.
The rest of us are somewhere in between, but I know which extreme I�d prefer.
Self-promotion is not an asset for a teacher. Please let�s give this guy a break. |
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Isla Guapa
Joined: 19 Apr 2010
Posts: 1520
Location: Mexico City o sea La Gran Manzana Mexicana
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| Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2011 11:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Soupman wrote: |
We�ve all met those overly enthusiastic teachers who couldn�t plan their way out of a phone booth and attract student complaints by the truckload. Meanwhile, comes the cynical hardcase, who can actually teach and get recognized as good by students.
The rest of us are somewhere in between, but I know which extreme I�d prefer.
Self-promotion is not an asset for a teacher. Please let�s give this guy a break. |
I don't see why we should give someone a break who shows nothing but contempt for what we do for a living and has no desire to prepare himself to teach before he steps into a classroom. |
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spiral78
Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 11534
Location: On a Short Leash
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| Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2011 11:20 pm Post subject: |
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| We�ve all met those overly enthusiastic teachers who couldn�t plan their way out of a phone booth and attract student complaints by the truckload. Meanwhile, comes the cynical hardcase, who can actually teach and get recognized as good by students. |
Honestly, I've never met either of these 'teachers,' and I've been in teacher training for years. People with some (continuing) enthusiasm tend to improve continuously, though obviously some improve at a higher scale point than others. The important factor is caring and motivation.
They cynics either 1. don't come across that way at all in the classroom (even when they're being observed - and therefore just likely have a cool social manner - they're not cynical about the job) or 2. they are cynical in the classroom and when students have high enough levels to discover the true attitude of the teacher to the process, they complain.[/quote] |
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Glenski
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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| Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 2:00 am Post subject: |
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| Soupman wrote: |
We�ve all met those overly enthusiastic teachers who couldn�t plan their way out of a phone booth and attract student complaints by the truckload. Meanwhile, comes the cynical hardcase, who can actually teach and get recognized as good by students.
The rest of us are somewhere in between, but I know which extreme I�d prefer.
Self-promotion is not an asset for a teacher. Please let�s give this guy a break. |
He is not "enthusiastic" about teaching. Haven't you read his posts? He doesn't even have one positive note to say about it.
He's also not cynical yet demonstrated any ability to teach. He said he doesn't give a damn about teaching. Pretty harsh and beyond cynical. I don't know where you get the idea that he'd be good in a classroom. In Japan, people are hired a lot on personality and chemistry in an interview or demo lesson. |
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JZer
Joined: 16 Jan 2005
Posts: 3898
Location: Pittsburgh
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| Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 3:29 am Post subject: |
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| Glenski wrote: |
| Soupman wrote: |
We�ve all met those overly enthusiastic teachers who couldn�t plan their way out of a phone booth and attract student complaints by the truckload. Meanwhile, comes the cynical hardcase, who can actually teach and get recognized as good by students.
The rest of us are somewhere in between, but I know which extreme I�d prefer.
Self-promotion is not an asset for a teacher. Please let�s give this guy a break. |
He is not "enthusiastic" about teaching. Haven't you read his posts? He doesn't even have one positive note to say about it.
He's also not cynical yet demonstrated any ability to teach. He said he doesn't give a damn about teaching. Pretty harsh and beyond cynical. I don't know where you get the idea that he'd be good in a classroom. In Japan, people are hired a lot on personality and chemistry in an interview or demo lesson. |
I do not live in Japan but sounds like a good way to get unreliable teachers who can turn on the charm for a 30 minute demo or interview yet do no put any effort into their work. |
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dustinm90
Joined: 20 Jun 2011
Posts: 10
Location: Ontario, Canada
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| Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 4:37 am Post subject: |
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| JZer wrote: |
| Glenski wrote: |
| Soupman wrote: |
We�ve all met those overly enthusiastic teachers who couldn�t plan their way out of a phone booth and attract student complaints by the truckload. Meanwhile, comes the cynical hardcase, who can actually teach and get recognized as good by students.
The rest of us are somewhere in between, but I know which extreme I�d prefer.
Self-promotion is not an asset for a teacher. Please let�s give this guy a break. |
He is not "enthusiastic" about teaching. Haven't you read his posts? He doesn't even have one positive note to say about it.
He's also not cynical yet demonstrated any ability to teach. He said he doesn't give a damn about teaching. Pretty harsh and beyond cynical. I don't know where you get the idea that he'd be good in a classroom. In Japan, people are hired a lot on personality and chemistry in an interview or demo lesson. |
I do not live in Japan but sounds like a good way to get unreliable teachers who can turn on the charm for a 30 minute demo or interview yet do no put any effort into their work. |
Not challenging your statement, but aren't people in most nations hired based on interview chemistry (obviously in combination with their resume/CV)?
I have to wonder how else (regardless of location or industry) you judge someone's competence without actually offering them probationary employment. |
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wiganer
Joined: 22 Sep 2010
Posts: 189
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| Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 6:25 am Post subject: |
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| ScottishGringo wrote: |
Just like I do now in my current job, just like people all over the world do in their jobs every single day, just like all the dossers of the world out there are doing in their English teaching jobs, I know because I've met tons of them and they're just like me they like travelling and want an easy, fun, lifestyle with little responsibilities and the chance to party a lot so they teach English abroad. Get over yourself and stop thinking your silly teaching English job needs to be taken so seriously. |
Dossers indeed, Mr call centre! 
I have to say, I have just left a university where we had a Scots teacher working alongside us. Like you - he spent a lot of time in Thailand and wanted to recreate his lifestyle in China and despite various warnings that our 5 million plus city is like a small village in regards our behaviour and word gets around - he went to the massage parlours, bars and brothels, to which he gleamed 'this place is just like Thailand'.
What happens though is that through the behaviour of one teacher - we all got dragged into his moral abyss - for example, I sent my wife off into a taxi and taxi driver goes 'who is he?' 'he is my husband' 'do you know I have driven him to brothels' Of course she didn't believe him because every night I spend with her but to the taxi driver - if he is driving one English teacher from that university to a brothel then we are all doing it.
Everytime a driver engages conversation with a student from the university - what do you think the topic of conversation is going to be? And of course it gets back to our bosses who then have the opportunity to screw us all at the end of the year and feel justified in doing it (which they did) but who is getting screwed the most is the Scots teacher who they now want rid of.
Moral of the story is that, yes - you can behave how you like, where you like and when you like... but when you come to Asia - your behaviour does affect us all and that is why there are a lot of teachers on here on your case. I am sure most of us on here who have had to traverse the behaviour of some colleague who was a complete and utter dud.
Last edited by wiganer on Tue Jun 28, 2011 8:03 am; edited 1 time in total |
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wiganer
Joined: 22 Sep 2010
Posts: 189
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| Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 8:00 am Post subject: |
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| Captain_Fil wrote: |
| nickpellatt wrote: |
@captain fil - Your only experience of China is reading on the forums here isnt it? I can assure you that many FTs in China feel far freer in China than they do in their home countries.
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You're absolutely right. Most ESL teachers enjoy freedom throughout China.
That is, if you're not Tibetan.
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Have you booked your place on a CELTA course yet? Noob! |
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Glenski
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Posts: 12844
Location: Hokkaido, JAPAN
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| Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 11:50 am Post subject: |
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| JZer wrote: |
| I do not live in Japan but sounds like a good way to get unreliable teachers who can turn on the charm for a 30 minute demo or interview yet do no put any effort into their work. |
Yup! Unreliable can be exactly what they get.
dusinm90,
Of course, they don't choose solely on that basis, but when you consider that most applicants here don't have teaching related degrees or very much (if any) experience, what else is left? The bar is pretty low. I can't speak for other countries.
You asked how else to judge someone? Well, let's start with either a degree in a teaching field, some measure of teaching experience, or certification/training? |
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JZer
Joined: 16 Jan 2005
Posts: 3898
Location: Pittsburgh
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| Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 1:48 pm Post subject: |
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| dustinm90 wrote: |
| JZer wrote: |
| Glenski wrote: |
| Soupman wrote: |
We�ve all met those overly enthusiastic teachers who couldn�t plan their way out of a phone booth and attract student complaints by the truckload. Meanwhile, comes the cynical hardcase, who can actually teach and get recognized as good by students.
The rest of us are somewhere in between, but I know which extreme I�d prefer.
Self-promotion is not an asset for a teacher. Please let�s give this guy a break. |
He is not "enthusiastic" about teaching. Haven't you read his posts? He doesn't even have one positive note to say about it.
He's also not cynical yet demonstrated any ability to teach. He said he doesn't give a damn about teaching. Pretty harsh and beyond cynical. I don't know where you get the idea that he'd be good in a classroom. In Japan, people are hired a lot on personality and chemistry in an interview or demo lesson. |
I do not live in Japan but sounds like a good way to get unreliable teachers who can turn on the charm for a 30 minute demo or interview yet do no put any effort into their work. |
Not challenging your statement, but aren't people in most nations hired based on interview chemistry (obviously in combination with their resume/CV)?
I have to wonder how else (regardless of location or industry) you judge someone's competence without actually offering them probationary employment. |
Call their past employers to make sure they actually showed up to work sober. |
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Soupman
Joined: 06 Jun 2011
Posts: 23
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| Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 7:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Glenski wrote: |
| Soupman wrote: |
We�ve all met those overly enthusiastic teachers who couldn�t plan their way out of a phone booth and attract student complaints by the truckload. Meanwhile, comes the cynical hardcase, who can actually teach and get recognized as good by students.
The rest of us are somewhere in between, but I know which extreme I�d prefer.
Self-promotion is not an asset for a teacher. Please let�s give this guy a break. |
He is not "enthusiastic" about teaching. Haven't you read his posts? He doesn't even have one positive note to say about it.
He's also not cynical yet demonstrated any ability to teach. He said he doesn't give a damn about teaching. Pretty harsh and beyond cynical. I don't know where you get the idea that he'd be good in a classroom. In Japan, people are hired a lot on personality and chemistry in an interview or demo lesson. |
I admit he could sell himself a whole lot better, but he didn�t even set foot in a classroom yet. What do we as teachers do when our students turn up with zero enthusiasm? Do we instantly label them as beyond hope and a waste of our time, or do we bear with them?
If ScottishGringo returns after his course to tell us teaching sucks, and yet he still heads off yonder to teach, then your criticism will be justified. Until then, I don�t get all the venom.
I got into teaching because I wanted to live and work abroad. I had no clue about teaching back then, and all my fellow trainees were in the same boat. Wanderlust is no crime, even in TEFL. |
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Isla Guapa
Joined: 19 Apr 2010
Posts: 1520
Location: Mexico City o sea La Gran Manzana Mexicana
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| Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 7:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Soupman wrote: |
I got into teaching because I wanted to live and work abroad. I had no clue about teaching back then, and all my fellow trainees were in the same boat. Wanderlust is no crime, even in TEFL. |
Wanderlust is wonderful - I've had a mild case of it from time to time. And not having a clue about teaching before one has walked into a classroom isn't a crime. What has a lot of us concerned is the fact that the OP announced at the start that he has no interest in teaching except as a means to finance his wanderlust lifestyle. |
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Soupman
Joined: 06 Jun 2011
Posts: 23
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| Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 7:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Isla Guapa wrote: |
| Soupman wrote: |
I got into teaching because I wanted to live and work abroad. I had no clue about teaching back then, and all my fellow trainees were in the same boat. Wanderlust is no crime, even in TEFL. |
Wanderlust is wonderful - I've had a mild case of it from time to time. And not having a clue about teaching before one has walked into a classroom isn't a crime. What has a lot of us concerned is the fact that the OP announced at the start that he has no interest in teaching except as a means to finance his wanderlust lifestyle. |
I may well have phrased my own thoughts as:
I have no clue about teaching except as a means to finance my wanderlust.
Is it too late to call the cops? |
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wiganer
Joined: 22 Sep 2010
Posts: 189
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| Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 7:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Soupman wrote: |
| Isla Guapa wrote: |
| Soupman wrote: |
I got into teaching because I wanted to live and work abroad. I had no clue about teaching back then, and all my fellow trainees were in the same boat. Wanderlust is no crime, even in TEFL. |
Wanderlust is wonderful - I've had a mild case of it from time to time. And not having a clue about teaching before one has walked into a classroom isn't a crime. What has a lot of us concerned is the fact that the OP announced at the start that he has no interest in teaching except as a means to finance his wanderlust lifestyle. |
I may well have phrased my own thoughts as:
I have no clue about teaching except as a means to finance my wanderlust.
Is it too late to call the cops? |
Fine! As long as the OP knows that it's a job and once the 'honeymoon period' wears off it will get old quick.
Also, in some parts of the world, whoring, bar hopping and jumping ship because you are bored will reflect badly on your colleagues - rightly or wrongly.
I think the OP should stick to online poker.  |
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