Job Discussion Forums

[Gordon]

Synne, don't apologize for expressing your opinion.

Japanese families don't express themselves as much as they do in most other countries. I wouldn't say they aren't close, just different. They don't hug much, but when they're small, kids sleep in a "family bed" with their parents. That's not my cup of tea, but hey it makes them happy.

Many Japanese friends are shocked/surprised when they see how much I hug and kiss my daughter in public (she's 2). Many have expressed that they wish they could be more like that, but society dictates otherwise. To me, that is sad.

[guest of Japan]

In regards to snacks.

They are usually owned and operated by ex-hostesses. Most hostesses reach a point when they are no longer considered young and attractive enough to to bring in and keep the new clients. If they've been successful hostesses they save their money and open a snack. A snack is usually attended by a regular crowd that either comes from the hostesses hostessing days or from locals to the neighborhood. They are in rundown areas and look rundown because they hostess are not rich. After 10 to 15 years of hostessing these women don't have a whole lot of skills other than making people feel comfortable. They often have children to feed as a result of a divorce or the death of a spouse. There is nothing seedy about them.

Be warned if as a foreigner you try to go by yourself you will probably either be refused service or charged a considerable amount more. Even Japanese people going for the first time are over charged. This is because snacks cater to a regular crowd. If some crazy new customer comes and drives the regulars away the owner is ruined.

[G Cthulhu]

just to play devil's advocate here.... :)

what's so wrong with the enjo thing in and of itself?

everyone knows how it works, it's part of the social fabric and has been for a *very* long time and so long as everyone involved knows what they're doing and does things safely then what's the real problem?

seriously, what's the problem?

The national age of consent is 13, yes. But most prefectures have a local age that is higher. For most IIRC, it's between 16 and 18. I can't help reading most of the posts in the thread and being struck by the sheer level of what I would describe as (and I hate this term) cultural imperialism going on. To be honest, I've met far more 14 and 15 year olds in Japan that have their heads screwed on straight over things sexual than I have in my home country where the age of consent is 16.

Most of you seem to be applying your own judeo-xtian standards to the whole thing. News flash: you're not in a judeo-xtian country. :)

IMO, it's not good or bad. It simply is. It's a part of Japan. It works for Japan. Anyone getting upset about it is simply displaying their own standards, norms and hang-ups about sex. Strangley enough, Japan probably doesn't share those hang-ups. It has a whole range to call its own. ;)

[homersimpson]

[scot47]

Of course it is our duty to explain to these Nips that they should not have sex before the TRUE age of consent as it is in Middle America.

We MUST make these people live their lives in the way WE think is right !

[PAULH]

[PAULH]

Article from http://www.time.com


She's Only a Little Schoolgirl
Why did she sleep with him? Money? Fun? Boredom? Gucci? Because, like, whatever
As told to KATE DRAKE Kyoto
I started doing Enjo Kosai my second year of high school. On most of my dates, I had sex. That's the weirdest thing I've ever done�meeting someone for the first time and screwing him the same day.
I was going to school like usual but I was bored and had no money. My boyfriend, the guy I lost my virginity to, had just broken up with me. I wouldn't do enjo kosai if I had a boyfriend. Losing him was really rough. So I just left a message about myself on a cyber message board and chose a sex partner from the guys who wrote back. It wasn't hard. Guys who want sex and dinner, guys who just want sex, guys who just want dinner�they're all out there. They leave messages like, "Any girl who will have sex for 50,000 yen [$420] send a message here," and stuff like that. I just had to say that I was a high school girl, you know?
So guys wrote back their age or just, like, "Let's have dinner." I chose guys based on their age and occupation. This guy I met at Kyoto Station, he and I wrote back and forth for a week before we met. He was practically an e-mail friend. I told him when I was free and he told me when he was free, and we just decided from there. He chose the price.
It was autumn so it was kinda chilly. I don't remember which day it was, but it was definitely a weekday because I went to school first. I got out at 3:30 p.m. then went home. I wear a school uniform and loose socks to school, so I had to change. Then I went to the station. I didn't do anything special to prepare for the date, I just went. We must have met around 6 p.m., in front of the ticket stalls. I used my cell phone to figure out who he was. He was wearing a gray suit. When I first saw him I thought, "Yep. He looks his age. He's a total salaryman."
We started talking. I asked him what he does at his job and he asked me about my school and what I do in my spare time. We just chatted. He had a white sedan and he drove us to some boring Italian place, I don't remember where. I had spaghetti, it wasn't expensive or anything. Then we went to a love hotel to have sex. He chose the hotel, it was in Minamiinta, Yamashina, off a toll road. It was just a normal place and he picked the room.
We just kinda carried on a regular conversation in the room. I mean we didn't talk about sex or anything. I took a bath first, alone. While I was in the tub, he took off his clothes. Then we did it. I used a condom so I wouldn't get pregnant. Afterward we agreed that it had gotten late, so he said, "I'll give you a lift." So he drove me to the station and that's when he paid me. I got 50,000 yen�50,000 or 60,000, I can't remember.
I didn't get a gift from him but most guys pay some sort of tribute to me. Guys always pay homage. But all the guys who wanted to screw me were old! Like, in their 30s. And none of them was attractive. One guy gave me a Gucci ring but I didn't keep it. Using it was gross! I sold it and spent the money on snowboarding. I bought lots of cute accessories and went on snowboarding trips. I'm actually going on a trip this weekend to Shiga Kogen, with my older brother's friends.
I didn't even know there was a law against enjo kosai. No one but me knew what I was doing so I thought it was O.K. It's not like I told my friends about it or anything. Enjo kosai's not something my friends and I talk about. I have no idea if any of them are doing it or have done it. To this day only five or six people know about me doing it. My parents definitely don't know�they would be pissed off. They'd think that I'm shameless.
I stopped doing enjo kosai after a while. When I did it, all I was thinking was that it's only for today so it doesn't matter. Stuff like, "No problem, don't worry that it's not someone you like." At the time I didn't think that I was doing anything bad, but now I think it was bad.
So I don't go shopping as much as I used to, even though I love Gucci's new stuff. I used to wear kogal fashion too, but not anymore. Now I have a part-time job in a Japanese inn serving breakfast and stuff but I also know some store managers here in town that give me day jobs, so I make about 30,000-40,000 yen a month. My dad gave me this Louis Vuitton purse. Yeah, it's small, but it's a brand name. I manage to save a little money. Very little.
Usually I go out with my friends, doing karaoke. I hang out here in Kyoto because my hometown is totally dead. Everything closes by 12 a.m. and there's, like, nothing to do. I don't eat dinner at home, I just go out with friends instead. O.K., maybe like four times a week. If I don't have to work, I'll go out drinking. My parents know that I drink but they don't care�I don't have a curfew or anything.
I'm the middle kid in my family. When I was little I wanted to become a housewife. Now I don't know what I want to do in the future. I just graduated from high school though. And I passed the college entrance exam so I'm going to go to a local college. I'm still going to live at home.
I've never talked with my parents or teachers about sex, are you kidding? My friends and I don't really talk about sex either. I've had sex with seven people, and that includes the guys I've actually liked.

Back to top | Sex Home | TIME Asia Home

[PAULH]

By MYNIPPON Team, May 5, 2001

Japanese society is so complex that most non-Japanese end up drawing conclusions that are in most cases just not right.� If you have ever tried to understand why Japan continues to have problems on international bodies or in bilateral trade issues, one common theme is the lack of understanding of Japanese thought process.� MYNIPPON is always making an attempt to bring out such complexities sothat fans and lovers of Japan can better appreciate what Japan means in their lives.

It is hard to get inside the mind of any person but even more so inside that of a Japanese person.� A great many non-Japanese people try to do that without speaking the language and that makes it even harder.� No wonder there is so much misunderstanding about the lives of Japanese school girls (for those of you who might sometimes end up on Japanese adult sites, it appears that Japanese school girls do nothing but take off their clothes and have sex all day - something that is absolutely not correct.� Japan has close to 100% literacy, Japanese high school graduates consistently score among the highest in Math compared to other developed countries, and Japanese girls do even better than boys academically) and the fact that some of them engage in enjo kosai or, in other words, have sex with mostly older men for money.

This fact of Japanese life, if not understood without complete context, sounds repulsive.� Most non-Japanese people analyze this situation by saying, �Oh! These teenage girls have no idea about the risks that they are putting themselves to � both physical and emotional.� There should be a law banning all this�.� We believe that enjo kosai is definitely not a healthy practice but here are some facts about Japanese society that better explain the background of this trend in Japan.� Haruka writes on our message board, "First of all, I do admit that prostitution can be more respected than those who don't even try to work (not being willing to work differs from not being able to work, of course). As the Japanese phrase "karada wo hatte" refers to, you are working by using what all you've got.� However, I wonder if you can proudly tell your children in the future "I was earning� money by having sex with a number of random strangers." I think not. If you can't be�proud of or honest about what you've done to everybody, then you must be doing something "wrong."� If you ever have a chance, please read a couple of books written by Ryu Murakami."
*

Japanese teenagers lead lives that cannot be supported by pocket money and after-school jobs that they typically have.� Many of them will use designer clothes and accessories and the usual teenage entertainment like trips to karaoke and malls (with train/taxi fares and meals) gradually add up.
*

Japanese parents have practically no influence on the schedules and activities of their children.� The country is so safe that children can be out at any time of the day without causing any worry to their parents.� That freedom can be easily misused by children when they grow up into teenagers.
*

Japanese people are unique in terms of engaging in sexual relations without necessarily thinking of it as an emotional and physical activity.� In the Japanese mind, sex is primarily a physical activity for satisfaction of sexual desire.� Most people will of course do it with someone they love but they will not see anything wrong to do it with a person they do not or cannot love as long as the sexual act itself is pleasurable.
*

There are certain things that Japanese people consider too impolite to discuss. Thus, your sex life is private and you can keep it that way without any pressure from your parents or your spouse/partner even if you live with these people.


Should enjo kosai be banned?

MYNIPPON believes that the Japanese Government should take serious steps to ban it and prosecute those men who engage in it.� Whatever the cultural and social context that allows this to happen, enjo kosai is not healthy for the young girls involved.� While we do not want to comment on minor girls engaging in sex with their boyfriends, engaging in sex with an old man with the sole purpose of earning money to be spent on luxurious goods is simply not healthy (regardless of how casually it might be perceived by these girls).

Unfortunately, we do not expect much to happen since the Government of Japan is dominated by middle-aged men some of whom probably engage in these acts themselves.� Secondly, no one in Japan openly admits of this being a problem, and therefore, would claim that there is no need to fix something that does not exist.� Finally, it is appears to be a win-win situation for both men and the girls involved though in a rather sad way.� As Jim comments, "While it might be a win-win situation for the man and the girl, the end result is not favorable for the girl.� The girl only wants two things - the great pleasure that the sex brings and the instant gratification of making fairly easy money for the luxury items she wants.� The young girls are so fashionable and only wear the very best and most current clothing.� I don't think the activity will stop.� Are the love hotels going to close?� No.� Are men and women in Japan going to stop cheating on each other?� No.� Are the girls and women alike, going to stop wearing high heels and short, short mini dresses?� No.� This practice of the young girl having sex with a much older man,� perhaps even older than her Father and the Japanese culture for not discussing such in open forum will allow this practice to continue until it finally becomes yet another of those complex traits of the Japanese people".

We will, however, continue to emphasize in our writings that this is a problem that can have significant impact on the psyche of Japanese women as they grow into adults and it has to be addressed both legally and socially immediately.

Megumi, a Japanese woman, has written to MYNIPPON.� "I feel sorry for those Japanese girls who practice enjo-kosai.� Why the hell do they love to sacrifice their bodies just for some crappy designer clothes? They are stupid, ignorant, easily influenced and perfect targets for anybody who wants to take advantage of them.� I do not approve of those girls who rely on designer clothes, expensive accessories, dyed hair, mini-skirt, leather boots, fish-net to boost their confident. Don't they have some self-respect? By shopping to make themselves attractive to middle-aged men and then having sex to earn money to shop more, these women are entering a vicious circle."

[shmooj]

[einsenundnullen]

[G Cthulhu]

double post


(where's the delete post option?!)

[G Cthulhu]

[Gordon]

Cthulhu,
So you would have no problem if your daughter prostituted herself? That's what it sounds like from your post.

[einsenundnullen]

[guest of Japan]

It's all a question of values.

Many young girls (and boys) value the image of wealth over things which many of us find to be more fundamental.

Many men value young girls (or boys).

Naturally these two values reciprocate.

It seems to me that these two values are more symptoms of the failings of Japanese society than an examples of its failings.