Job Discussion Forums

[bluetortilla]

I'm an experienced TESOL instructor (20 + years) but with very few 'qualification' as in certificates (OK, go ahead and ask why not if you like- I've no secrets). I'm ready to jump Japan in about six months to somewhere in Southeast or South Asia but realize I need at least a CELTA for starters.
Now, do I get that without having a job lined up and take enough money to hold me over? What about visas and CELTA? Will some schools hold you a place until you get your CELTA? Or do you just pretty much get the CELTA and then you're on your own?
Where is a good city or place to get a CELTA? The country you want to teach in? The cheapest place?
Forgive my ignorance.
I also have heard of other certificates but I'm just interested in the CELTA for the time being.
Thanks a lot!

[wailing_imam]

Get the qualification - then apply for the jobs.

If I were you I'd forget the cert and go straight for a diploma (DELTA or Trinity DipTESOL). After all these years you will have built up the necessary knowledge and these diplomas are not much more expensive than the certs. They will open far more doors, though they do take longer to get. If you have no time, go for the intensive CELTA.

[bluetortilla]

Yes, I would like to apply for those or go for a Master's but as you say that takes a lot of time. So I just want to get the CELTA and hit the ground running, save, and work toward the next step.

[westbrook1]

I just finished my CELTA last week. As far as I am aware, you can't get the DELTA until you have two years experience post-CELTA. MA's are obviously a different story.

Coming from Japan, it might make sense to just stay there and do the CELTA. No sense in buying a plane ticket for somewhere far away when you can just do it in Tokyo, right?

If you do want to get it somewhere outside of Japan, though, and don't care about costs, I would highly recommend Language Link in London. That's where I did mine. The tutors are wonderful; the feedback is nothing like the horror stories you read about online, and the whole thing takes less than a month. It's intense, but worth it. It's also cheap (I paid 960 pounds sterling compared to well over 1100 pounds at other locations in London).

A word of advice though: they do want you to follow the CELTA methods. So any experience you have, throw out the window. The one's in my class who were on thin ice were the teachers who came in with years of experience and insisted on using their methods in the classroom. This may work in some specific instances, but if you don't follow the methods given, then you will have a hard time. Nothing to be afraid of though, and I'm not trying to put you off, but just giving honest advice.

Oh, and you get the CELTA and then job hunt. It is unlikely that someone is going to wait around for you to get the certification and hold you a place.

[tttompatz]

[wailing_imam]

Useless advice there.

Having the qualification is what separates those who need to work is dodgy mills and language schools from those who work at decent universities, colleges and places like the British Council.

[tttompatz]

[bluetortilla]

Heartening information.

I'm OK where I'm at in Japan for the next six months and can save money (actually I'm on contract and probably should not break it if I want a good letter of recommendation)

I don't mind doing a CELTA, though it sounds a bit redundant for me (not to blow the ol' horn, but I guess that will make it easier for a combat hardened vet like me). I don't care about the strict methodological demands either, though it seems puerile on the surface- after all, a focus on any given methodology can enrich your wider linguistics arsenal.

I really want a Master's, but that won't happen overnight.

Other than that, despite the optimism expressed, all I hear is CELTA CELTA CELTA so I guess I better get one.

Where is the cheapest place by the way, Jakarta?

[wailing_imam]

I have been teaching for a decade and have worked in a variety of places with a variety of people. It is possible to teach English at some schools for years on end applying very little in terms of approaches and methodology and even reflecting and contributing to an English language department. Language schools in Japan such as the now defunct Nova asked very little of their teachers. Were the teachers even "teaching"? Therefore, the length of time teaching at schools such as EF or Nova doesn't make one even remotely 'qualified' as has been suggested, irrespsective of the number of years one has actually taught.

Secondly, yes you can work at a university without a Master's degree. Universities such as James Cook Australia (Singapore) advertise for qualified ESL teachers to work on their prep programs. These prep programs are big business in places such as Malaysia and Singapore where students from other developing countries flock to get a decent English language education from the many private universities and colleges (many affiliated with universities in the UK and Aus). China also has a lot of programs offered in conjunction with Australian TAFEs (like Polytechnics I believe) which can pay very well, but one needs the paperwork first.

So, to reiterate - without a CELTA or Trinity CertTESOL (the only 2 worth getting, the latter you can get from IALF in Bali by the way), you will end up working at dodgy language schools. Of course a Master's is better. Having a CELTA will also allow you to become an IELTS examiner, a good way to earn some decent currency.

You can do a Trinity DipTESOL without the Cert providing you have over 2 years teaching experience. However, this takes a long time to get.

[bluetortilla]

I've been teaching over 20 years, have studied and researched extensively, got the first level of the Japanese Language Proficiency Exam, owned and administered an English school for 10 years, developed curriculum for a local elementary school, and completed one semester of Graduate school TESOL Grammar toward a Master's. I've been around the block, though I never got the docs to show it.

I know there are tons of unqualified teachers in Japan (in fact it's probably the norm). But I haven't met any who have taught as long as you or I without learning the trade. I think you'd go nuts after a while if you didn't.

The CELTA for me sounds perfunctory but highly advantageous. But where is the best place? I know you're suggesting Bali for the Trinity but I think I want the CELTA first. As airfares seem to be the same all over Asia from here, I'm still wondering where the cheapest place to get it is.

[creztor]

bluetortilla, does Japan offer any MA Linguistic related courses that you could do?

[bluetortilla]

[tttompatz]

A CELTA (Certificate in English Language Teaching to Adults) is going to cost you about 200,000 yen just about everywhere.

I.H. in BKK is an option. You would be looking at close to 300,000 yen for the CELTA and living expenses for the month.

There are a couple others who offer the CELTA here as well. The brand is the same the world over so the "where" is largely not relevant beyond the local living expenses.

Lastly, who do you want to teach?

i) K-12. A CELTA is largely useless for experienced teachers in a K-12 classroom. Your BA and experience will get you in at almost anything that is NOT an "international school" (require a teaching license and education degrees/qualifications).

ii) Upper end language academies or "prep programs" for adults. A CELTA (or any other decent TEFL course) is almost a necessity in mature markets and not a requirement in places like China.

iii) Better universities = MA (or better) is the common requirement for "lecturer". These are NOT "prep" programs but actual university classes.

iv) 2nd and 3rd tier universities = BA + experience (as a "visiting" lecturer). In some countries (China, Korea, Thailand to name just 3) you can get a job teaching 1st year university classes/students with only a BA and extensive experience (again, a CELTA or other TEFL cert is not usually required).

v) Your average language academy = BA gets you in anywhere / everywhere.

I am not against getting proper "qualifications". I certainly hold enough wallpaper to choke a horse but I am against blanket endorsements of "brand name programs" that may or may not be appropriate for the teacher (depending on who, what and where they plan to teach.

Edit for price correction (200,000 instead of 20,000 yen).

[bluetortilla]

Well, when all is said and done, I'm not real thrilled about a CELTA or equivalent either but I'd like to have as many options as I can. What I ma keen on is a Masters but that's a will see.

I heard Jakarta has a 2000 USD program. I'd imagine Jakarta to be cheap to live in- at least it was extremely cheap 10 years ago.

Anybody looking to do a CELTA in Japan will only have Kobe as an option. Japan is an extremely expensive place to live as I'm sure you all know. However, I could save on airfare.

I guess in the end one should pursue the CELTA in the country in which one wants to teach. Or near it. Or maybe it doesn't matter all that much- just get the thing...

???

[tttompatz]

I stand corrected on the dropped "0" in my previous post. Edited to correct it.

International house is one CELTA provider. (They have schools around the globe).

Their Thai packages are:
The cost of the Bangkok & Board package is US$2,100;
the Chiang Mai Xtra package is US$2,345;
the Phuket Plus package is US$2,445.

http://www.ihbangkok.com/page/81-international_house_bangkok_prestigious_english_school_in_bangkok_celta_th.html

Bottom line, you can get a CELTA for as little as 166,000 yen (room and board included) and subject to change as the dollar and yen fluctuate in the current economic climate.

You will need about another $1000 to get you settled and see you through to your first payday (whether you go to Thailand, Malaysia or Indonesia) after you finish your course (if you go that route).

The cost of the basic 8-week, full-time intensive Delta course (Diploma in English Language Teaching) in Bangkok is US$3,400. + exam fees totaling �263.50 (about an extra 35,000 yen).

Can you get a job without either of them = yes.
Does it have to be in a dodgy language academy = no.
Can you do one or both certifications during the school vacations = yes.

.