Job Discussion Forums

[sharter]

I'm off to the Middle East again soon with yet another oil company. However, I trawl the jobs pages daily looking for decent postings, which to me are ones in nice places where you can actually live and not just survive on the salary offered. There are very few of these jobs around. Where have they all gone?

A thousand Euros in Europe, you're having a laugh. A university teaching job in Saudi for $4,000, simply risible. A PhD to teach Headway in the Emirates, hilarious.

Where can you actually make a living and not just subsist? TEFL seems to be getting even worse!

[Glenski]

What is your background in teaching?
What is your nationality?
How much do you actually expect to make in order to "make a living and not just subsist"? What do you mean by not just subsist?

[Perilla]

[tttompatz]

[Perilla]

[tttompatz]

[Perilla]

[Abu Faisal]

$4000 a month in a country where you pay zero tax and cost of living is very low is only enough for you to subsist on?

I saved a decent amount of money in Korea, even going out and partying every weekend.

In Saudi Arabia, I got myself completely out of debt (and I was in deep) after one year. I saved a good amount of money the year after that, even after many expensive weekends in Bahrain/Dubai and a month spent vacationing in SE Asia.

This year I'm looking forward to saving even more, as I just got about a 35% salary bump by changing employers. If I become a direct hire (working through a contractor now) I'm looking at another 35% bump whenever that happens. If you factor in the fact that we're not paying taxes I'm making the equivalent of a six-figure salary in the USA, for doing very little work. Not counting vacations, my living expenses total about $1000 a month or less.. but I had a roommate before that was living on about $450 a month here including rent. My house is huge and if I wanted to rent out a few rooms I could be living here rent free which would reduce my expenses to about $200 a month.

Some day I'll move to Thailand after I have a big nest egg. Yes, it's possible to get by on $10,000/year there. But if you are smart enough to find a way to save here and not just subsist (seriously... wtf are you spending money on???? There's nothing to do here. Do you live in one of those ABSURDLY overpriced compounds? Do you eat out at expensive Western chain restaurants every night?)... then you could take those savings to Thailand with you after a few years, and basically live like a king without having to work at all. Or you could work just to cover basics. Or tutor.. often that's more lucrative than a regular job in Thailand anyway.

Or get certified and go to one of the job fairs for International Schools. You can work at an international school in the Philippines making western wages, have nice housing provided for you, and only have the living expenses of the 3rd world. You just have to be qualified and do the work to find the job. Hong Kong NET positions are another very lucrative very attractive opportunity for someone who wants a well-paying job in a vibrant and fun place to live. Singapore and Taiwan are decent, too.

The best jobs are the ones you have to do a little work to find and be patient for. If they were so great and at the same time so easy to get... then why would you expect them to just be laying around? Someone else would snatch them up...

Sounds like you have a good job already so I'm not sure what you're complaining about except that you want to make better than Middle East wages some place with a SE Asia or West European lifestyle and you want these jobs to be readily available and easy to find... well... guess what those don't exist.

[sharter]

Calm down mate. I've done ok in tefl. Five different oil companies over 16 years have paid for a decade and a half of great fun. I'm off to another and can't complain. Just reached 40 and now need to do the 5 year slog to buy a flat in cash....no worries. My kid wants for nothing. Hamdulillah.

I just think that there's more exploitation in this industry right now than I've ever seen. $4,000 in Saudi in no way compensates you for the life you give up, if you are a straight, single male non-muslim;I know, I used to live there.
Europe is a no go zone. I'm on holiday in Central Europe right now and rooms in hostels start at $60/night, an average meal in a restaurant is $20 and an average salary is $1,000 a month. UK tefl on 350 quid a week is not even subsistence. I could go on, but can't be bothered.

I merely pointed out the fact that the good jobs are really few and far between. The ME seems to have allowed in all the MacDonalds teaching outfits.

Haven't been to Korea and have no desire to go there.

[Glenski]

I did you the courtesy of answering your post, but needed more info. Please do me the same courtesy by answering the questions I posed.

[sharter]

British, 16 years as a qualified teacher, taught in the UK, Czech, Poland, Libya, Qatar and Saudi. All fields of English ie General, Business, Technical, Cambridge Suite, IELTS and TOEFL. Former Cambridge examiner. Been a DOS etc. Been published etc. Got a kid and pay child support in Europe.

Subsisting is having almost nothing in your pocket at the end of the month.

[MotherF]

I think the best jobs are not being vacated.
I really no nothing about the middle east, but I work at a school that I consider a good job in Mexico. Over the past decade we have had 3 to 5 of our 15 teachers leave each semester. This fall we are only hiring one new teacher as everyone else is staying put.
Bad economy makes for less globe trotting I'd say.

[Glenski]

Thank you for answering most of my questions.

How much do you actually expect to make in order to "make a living and not just subsist"?
This one would probably depend on the cost of living in each country, so if you could state your own country's money (pounds) and say how much is needed to be spent every month (in your case, for child support), then it's straightforward to tell you roughly how much is left over from each country's salary, using basic necessities as an average guideline.

Salary - basic needs - child support = whatever is left for your luxuries

Luxuries covers a lot, so depending on your own lifestyle as well as the economy of where you live, you can see if that remainder satisfies you.

Of course, we will then run into the personal definition of "make a living". Do you need a case of wine per month, 3 trips back to the UK per year, 3 months of sightseeing cash, satellite TV, expensive clothes, etc.?

[cmp45]

Interesting conversation...I have been working in the Gulf for over 10+ years and can safely say that Saudi Arabia is excellent for saving money. I started my ESL career in the UAE. Stayed there for three years working at a Technical Highschool. The job paid pooly and was no walk in the park teaching unruly students, Many teachers couldn't hack it and did runners. I stuck it out as I focused on the 2-3 years of experience and thought about the bigger picture. I knew it was a crappy job, but also knew it would help get me another job if I stuck it out, despite the crappy job conditions, having a great social life made it more bearable. I allowed my self to indulge and just have fun, so stayed for 3 years and partied. Unfortunately, I went in to debt rather than save....just too much fun going on.
So with 3 years of experience in the UAE, I decided to bite the bullet and enter the KSA market. I was lucky to land 3 different jobs over the last 9 years in Saudi Arabia, each job was a step up in salary. It was the smartest move I could have made. I not only paid off 30 grand of debts(Student loans and credit card) in the first three years and now able to save more and purchase property. I got the party crap out of my system and enjoy a quieter existence in KSA. I also set goals for what I want to achieve.

Maturity in life means you will envairably have to make some compromises. As stated before, there are a number of factors that will determine how you are able to cope in the magical KSA. There are jobs to be had that pay well. Are you willing to compromise to make it happen. If not, 'then move along, go peddle your rant somewhere else were all full up here.This is "As Good As It Gets"

Do you need a case of wine per month, 3 trips back to the UK per year, 3 months of sightseeing cash, satellite TV, expensive clothes, etc.? Then with the right job in KSA you too can have all of this!

[ancient_dweller]

life is too short to go to KSA