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It's Scary!
Joined: 17 Apr 2011
Posts: 823
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 Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2011 11:48 pm Post subject: |
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Add to that the cultural situation that males tend to get whatever they want from birth. I expect that many of them are very surprised when they get to the US and can neither negotiate a higher grade nor get their every desire.
VS |
I crushed a "warrior's" little heart today when I had a "Come to Issa" meeting with him after school today and, after his rant blaming me for all his faults, revealed to him that "we don't live in a 'blame-the-teacher" culture anymore. I summed up the "meeting" today saying:
YOU'RE IN MY SANDBOX, NOW.
It's a new reality! |
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Noelle
Joined: 26 Mar 2005
Posts: 361
Location: USA
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| Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2011 3:15 am Post subject: |
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It's Scary,
I want to apologize for the doomsayer comment. I used it for lack of a better word. Like a previous poster in this thread, I too am a Korea TESOL veteran and I got my ears full of foreigners ranting and whinging about Korean culture for 4 years. Your final remark to me in your first response "Keep dreaming sister!" reminded me of this.
Yes, I did misunderstand you. I interpreted your post to mean that you'd been turned completely off to Arab culture and teaching in that part of the world. Again, I apologize!
I am extremely befuddled by a handful of my current students at the moment who happen to be Saudi men. I've never seen such idiotic behavior from students before and I really thought I'd seen it ALL in Asia! I've often wondered of some of my students if they are carrying a full deck upstairs...
I'm not sure who asked me earlier if there are any Saudis who "go against the grain" in my program-- but the answer is YES. There are students who somehow manage to think for themselves, take responsibility for their learning and even on occasion, demonstrate the ability to be self reflective. That is why I posed a question in such generalizing terms earlier about this craziness being a cultural thing.
After spending 4 years in South Korea, the majority of which were spent actually teaching public school TEACHERS, not students, I feel that there is only so much that can be blamed on culture.
Only my opinion... |
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blackwellben
Joined: 06 Nov 2010
Posts: 121
Location: Saudi Arabia
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| Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2011 5:11 am Post subject: |
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| johnslat wrote: |
10% really good
80% on a sliding scale, from pretty bad to good
10% hopeless. |
That rings a bell. |
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It's Scary!
Joined: 17 Apr 2011
Posts: 823
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| Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2011 11:00 am Post subject: |
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| blackwellben wrote: |
| johnslat wrote: |
10% really good
80% on a sliding scale, from pretty bad to good
10% hopeless. |
That rings a bell. |
As in this?
| Quote: |
♫Ding!♫, ♫Ding!♫, ♫Ding!♫, ♫Ding!♫, ♫Ding!♫!!! You got it!
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blackwellben
Joined: 06 Nov 2010
Posts: 121
Location: Saudi Arabia
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| Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2011 11:52 am Post subject: |
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| It's Scary! wrote: |
| blackwellben wrote: |
| johnslat wrote: |
10% really good
80% on a sliding scale, from pretty bad to good
10% hopeless. |
That rings a bell. |
As in this?
| Quote: |
| ♫Ding!♫, ♫Ding!♫, ♫Ding!♫, ♫Ding!♫, ♫Ding!♫ |
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no |
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It's Scary!
Joined: 17 Apr 2011
Posts: 823
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| Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2011 6:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Noelle wrote: |
It's Scary,
I want to apologize for the doomsayer comment. I used it for lack of a better word. Like a previous poster in this thread, I too am a Korea TESOL veteran and I got my ears full of foreigners ranting and whinging about Korean culture for 4 years. Your final remark to me in your first response "Keep dreaming sister!" reminded me of this.
No apology required! I've worked in Korea and know the rants well. Many are well-founded, but like I told those ranting around me in Saudi Arabia, " If you can't stand the heat, get out of the Kingdom!" That wasn't my final remark. I believe that I used the quotation marks correctly and ascribed those words to another poster.
Yes, I did misunderstand you. I interpreted your post to mean that you'd been turned completely off to Arab culture and teaching in that part of the world. Again, I apologize!
Again, no apology needed. I was just being frank in my assessment. And, it should be noted that my assessment is my own. Others are free to agree or disagree with what I think.
I am extremely befuddled by a handful of my current students at the moment who happen to be Saudi men. I've never seen such idiotic behavior from students before and I really thought I'd seen it ALL in Asia! I've often wondered of some of my students if they are carrying a full deck upstairs...
It's due to a poor culture of education on their part. The quoted poster and I have explained this.
I'm not sure who asked me earlier if there are any Saudis who "go against the grain" in my program-- but the answer is YES. There are students who somehow manage to think for themselves, take responsibility for their learning and even on occasion, demonstrate the ability to be self reflective. That is why I posed a question in such generalizing terms earlier about this craziness being a cultural thing.
I asked that. In the time that I've been here and the dozens and dozens of Gulf Arabs I've taught, I've had one, count him, one Kuwaiti naval lieutenant who was outstanding. Many have been down-right "lazy" and many have tried after some inspiration. Thank your lucky stars that "There are students..."! I've only had one. 
After spending 4 years in South Korea, the majority of which were spent actually teaching public school TEACHERS, not students, I feel that there is only so much that can be blamed on culture.
Only my opinion...
And, on that note, we'll have to agree to disagree. |
It's MAINLY about culture! |
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Wordsmithy
Joined: 28 Jun 2010
Posts: 7
Location: Riyadh
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| Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2011 10:58 pm Post subject: wasta |
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Just in case the term "wasta" was lost in the shuffle, I think it can simply be summed up by calling it influence, or perhaps personal influence based on tribal affiliation and position.
My own breakdown of classroom enthusiasm and interest would be more like:
25% - interested in doing the work and earning a high grade.
60% - interested enough to work hard enough to get through to the next level and can be motivated to do well, provided it doesn't interfere with texting too much. These are the guys who can be saved.
15% - simply taking up space, with a few of them willing to do some minimal amount of work in order to pass the 60% mark and willing to go to tremendous lengths to get the teacher to give them extra marks. ("Teacher, I need help"). |
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blackwellben
Joined: 06 Nov 2010
Posts: 121
Location: Saudi Arabia
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| Posted: Thu Aug 25, 2011 2:48 am Post subject: Re: wasta |
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| Wordsmithy wrote: |
My own breakdown of classroom enthusiasm and interest would be more like:
25% - interested in doing the work and earning a high grade.
60% - interested enough to work hard enough to get through to the next level and can be motivated to do well, provided it doesn't interfere with texting too much. These are the guys who can be saved.
15% - simply taking up space, with a few of them willing to do some minimal amount of work in order to pass the 60% mark and willing to go to tremendous lengths to get the teacher to give them extra marks. ("Teacher, I need help"). |
Those descriptions are spot on for me and similar to every class I've ever taught in an urban, public setting.
I think the cultural differences are surprising to the uninitiated, but ultimately minor.
I think the more experience you have the less cultural differences matter-- my students are just another butt in the seat I'm helping to acquire a skill-set.
But cultural differences are fascinating and the temptation to "get in their head" is a facet of being a teacher and caring about your job.
For all the perceived arrogance (and actual arrogance) a Saudi student can exhibit, and as galling as it can be, it's a fragility, naivete and near innocence-- in my opinion.
I listen to the women teachers coming to know their students and their issues are as intriguing-- more so, really. Their students' work is far more complex to read. |
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geela
Joined: 12 Aug 2011
Posts: 14
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| Posted: Thu Aug 25, 2011 11:08 am Post subject: Many of the responses are pessimistic isn't it? |
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Some of you are simply being pessimistic.
Its scary and others wrote page's worth of nothing but generalizations.
These are the same people who worked there years and years and wouldn't give the world for their positions.
If you don't like it why u still there, but telling others not to get in!
Besides, the anglophone group are the most respected in the region and preferred over others.
You telling me any of these folks writing here would say, "I'm not going to stand this because its against my morals" ?
Next time other nationals are asked to give you their spot in the line(bank) lets see how much morals you have and how you respond.
Every society has good and bad. Successful people are those who take from each side what's good and apply it to their own live. |
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Middle East Beast
Joined: 05 Mar 2008
Posts: 836
Location: Up a tree
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| Posted: Thu Aug 25, 2011 11:40 am Post subject: Re: Many of the responses are pessimistic isn't it? |
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| geela wrote: |
Some of you are simply being pessimistic.
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How about realistic?
MEB  |
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Middle East Beast
Joined: 05 Mar 2008
Posts: 836
Location: Up a tree
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| Posted: Thu Aug 25, 2011 11:47 am Post subject: Re: Many of the responses are pessimistic isn't it? |
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| geela wrote: |
Every society has good and bad. Successful people are those who take from each side what's good and apply it to their own live. |
What about the bad? What do you do with that? Learn from it? Ignore it? Deny it exists? Hide it from others? Spin it "positive?"
MEB |
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blackwellben
Joined: 06 Nov 2010
Posts: 121
Location: Saudi Arabia
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| Posted: Thu Aug 25, 2011 12:04 pm Post subject: Re: Many of the responses are pessimistic isn't it? |
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| geela wrote: |
| If you don't like it why u still there, but telling others not to get in! |
I don't think that's true, Geela.
Your post generalizes greatly while complaining about generalizations.
The concern of nearly all posters is to find jobs in which they are comfortable very far from home, having made commitments of time as long as a year.
And often companies lie to prospective teachers to "get them over there" and don't care if they're happy.
Your post seems to address more than this thread (and a few of its responses), but many threads, responses and posters since you started posting. |
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It's Scary!
Joined: 17 Apr 2011
Posts: 823
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| Posted: Thu Aug 25, 2011 5:22 pm Post subject: |
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Look. I'm tired of this! This "geela" is obviously extremely ignorant of a plethora of things, besides grammar! This person has never set foot in the Kingdom, but was ready to encourage a woman with a six-month older to play canary in the mine and go to work illegally with a company that geela had previously turned down.
geela knows nothing of what she speaks about the students she is supposedly supposed to come into contact with and is only interested in getting reassuring comments over a decision that she, obviously, is having second doubts about.
It's about enough! |
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johnslat
Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 13859
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
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| Posted: Thu Aug 25, 2011 5:34 pm Post subject: |
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Dear geela,
"If you don't like it why u still there, but telling others not to get in!"
Actually, I, It's Scary, and Middle East Beast are no longer in Saudi, and what we are saying is not, don't go, but, if you go, make as sure as you can that you have a "good employer" and (preferably) a work visa (not a business visa.)
The Kingdom can be difficult enough for most even with a good employer and a work visa. Without them, it can be intolerable, and it's not easy to leave. If your employer won't get an exit visa for you, you're stuck there.
Regards,
John |
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It's Scary!
Joined: 17 Apr 2011
Posts: 823
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| Posted: Thu Aug 25, 2011 5:45 pm Post subject: |
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John, suggesting that we get out of the bank line proves that geela sees the Kingdom as nothing more than a money-making proposition and s/he want to shoulder his/her way to the trough. Go for it, geela!
Plus, s/he's barged in on a thread that refers to Saudis in the U.S., not Saudi.
What is it geela, the U.S. or Saudi which has the tastiest trough?
It's not a smart line of questioning/accusations! |
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