Job Discussion Forums

[rgraham1014]

Hey there TESOLers-

I'm a US citizen looking to move to China in the next year. I have a B.A. (non-ed) and a CELTA (which I recieved in Mexico) I have 6 months teaching exp in the US (pre-CELTA) and 6 months exp in Mexico (post-CELTA) I also speak fluent Spanish, but I'm not certified to teach it.

I've heard China is one of the best places to save money in Asia - but China is gigantic! The largest complaint I've heard about China is general unfriendliness towards foriegners. Coming most recently from relatively relaxed and friendly Latin America, this worries me. However, the money in LA isn't great, and I'm now on a mission to save up some dough and pay back my school loans.

So I'm wondering, how much should I be able to save working/living in China? (I am not a person who needs a lot of luxeries - don't need Satillite TV, my own place, lots of western food, and I don't go out partying much)

Where are some of the most pleasant places to live in China?

Where can you make the most money relative to cost-of-living?

Would I have a shot at uni jobs, or only language schools?

Any input would be appreicated!

Rachel

[Trinley]

I only have one year's experience in China, but I can give you my opinions.

China is not exactly the place to save money, but you can do it. Usually when people want to pay off loans fast, they go to South Korea or Saudi Arabia. China is often considered more enjoyable than either of those places though.

Most ESL teachers in China get paid plenty more than they need to get by, and in my opinion, it shouldn't be hard for you to save half of what you make, since you don't seem to be a big spender. But that's just my guess -- could be more, could be less.

I'm kind of surprised you heard that Chinese being unfriendly is the main complaint. I didn't find them unfriendly. What gets to most foreigners in China seems to be certain mannerism and habits that are considered unrefined, like cutting in line, staring, blowing their nose on the sidewalk, letting toddlers poop on the sidewalk, stuff like that. You could say they're pretty rough around the edges. I found them friendly in their own way, but not in the "Thailand -- land of smiles" way.

It's hard to say what's pleasant without knowing what you're into. Do you want to live in a huge, medium or small city? Do you want to live around a lot of expats? Do you want a modern or traditional city? What do you find pleasant?

For your next question, generally if the cost of living is high, your salary is higher. From what I've seen, it all kind of works out the same in the end. In a big city you may be more tempted to go out and spend. But then, in a small town you may get bored and be tempted to spend your money on vacations. Depends on you.

You might get a uni job. A friend of mine got one at 20 years old with no degree. The pay is pretty low there, but the hours are also low, enabling you to work part-time at a private language school and potentially double your salary. That's exactly what I did. 20 hours at a college for flight, accommodation, and 5k/mo salary. 9 hours at a language school for the same salary, no benefits. So I cleared 10k for 29 hours of work.

These answers are just based on my experiences, of course. Good luck with your venture!

[7969]

[shuanglu pijiu]

if you can speak Chinese and/or the local dialect spoken in whatever city you live in, you'll find that the attitude toward foreigners grows increasingly more 'unfriendly' and even outright hostile (the latter being more of a recent phenomenon of the last year or two, i've found) with each passing day - because you'll actually know what people are saying about you when they're not just screeching out high-pitched sarcastic "hello"s.

that being said, there are good people everywhere (and there are plenty in China), and it's not like by NOT coming to China, you're going to somehow avoid ignorant, xenophobic idiots. they're in every country.

as of late it's especially difficult if you're American, at least in my experience. i've had more racist garbage said to my face and behind my back in the last few months than pretty much my entire last 10 years in China combined, and in recent times have even had numerous near violent run-ins with increasingly physically hostile loudmouths - which is, in my experience, really quite a new phenomenon in what was always a pretty mellow country, physical violence-wise.

but just like with anywhere, you gotta let the positives overshadow the negatives. at least you gotta try

[dean_a_jones]

[Lobster]

Sorry, but I don't find the locals getting any more unfriendly or hostile at all. Beyond the typical 10% of any given population who are louts, I don't sense any change whatsoever. These constant types of generalizations based on personal experiences are starting to irk me. In 11 years in China, I've never had a hostile confrontation with a Chinese person; that's my experience. I don't think friendliness or the lack of of is the big issue here,; it's getting ripped off or exploited by your employer.

Sorry Rachel, your questions are so far-reaching that a useful reply is nearly impossible.

How much will you spend?
What places do you like?
What type of job will you do?

You could certainly choose between a uni or language school. Your 1-year teaching experience may not be enough to get certified in some cities.

RED

[shuanglu pijiu]

so you're irked by people talking about their 'personal experience' as 'generalizations,' then in the next sentence, talk about your 'personal experience,' and want to generalize China as a place where there is never any hostility toward foreigners. and that's different... how?

apparently it's only your 'personal experience' that is both valid, and doesn't equate to a 'generalization.' i see now, thanks. i will adjust my attitude accordingly.

[MisterButtkins]

I also think that the Chinese are quite friendly to foreigners in most cities. The only city I have been to where I felt that they were quite rude is Kunming. Maybe because of all the tourists.

[Lobster]

Basic reading comprehension would tell you that I am clearly stating my personal experiences as a counter-example, and am not making it a generalization about life in China. Others may very well experience unfriendliness or even hostility.

Examples that indicate a personal opinion and not a generalization:
I don't find...
I don't sense...
I don't think...

Example of generalization:
You will find...

[Miles Smiles]

I'm in a second-tier city of 2 million, and I can save better than sixty percent of my salary. Getting set up in a new city, though, usually eats a lot of cash unless you carry all of the extra pots and pans, towels and general apartment necessities from your previous job with you. After my abode is setup, saving is easy, and I really don't have to scrimp. I don't drink a whole lot, and I don't HAVE to have imported items. I can still eat out 1-2 nights per week at the neighborhood restaurants.

[Miles Smiles]

[Trinley]

Sometimes I just want to pop on a thread and say

Helloooooooo foreignaaaaaaaa!!!

[askiptochina]

[Miajiayou]

I live in Nanjing, and have found that more people (especially young people) will say extremely rude things, in Chinese, about me than ever before. But, only if they're with friends. But, people are sure polite here. Now, I have actually come to anticipate men standing aside and letting me get on and off an elevator first, everyone holding doors, saying "dui bu qi" or, even more often, "excuse me" when they bump into me, rushing to pick up things I've dropped on the ground, asking me if I need help when I look lost, etc.

I don't think the anti-foreigner thing is anything to fuss about. I've seen it in America, in the UK, all over Eastern Europe and other parts of Asia. Often, it is much more overt... as the people mocking me in Chinese likely believe that I can't speak Chinese and are embarrassed if I indicate that I understand. (all of the above in my experience only, naturally)

Anyway, I don't think China is the best place to save money in Asia at all, especially if you are just starting out. But, I would say that if you are looking to save money in American terms and not Chinese terms, stay away from smaller, rural, Western areas. Unless you will be getting a salary equivalent to that in a more developed area, the amount of money you save by simply not having any expensive options around won't mean much after the hit you take in pay.

For example, I don't care if I can live on 500 a month in BFE Hunan, if I am only going to be making 4000/month I will still save less than I do in Nanjing (where that kind of salary doesn't even exist).

[astrayalien]

I am in Taiyuan. I find the people here very friendly. It is a very cheap place to live, but big enough so you won't be bored.