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Miajiayou
Joined: 30 Apr 2011
Posts: 283
Location: Nanjing
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 Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2011 3:08 pm Post subject: |
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An awful lot of foreign teachers who come here are not really teachers at all. They don't have any real qualifications (a 120 hour TEFL certificate does not count as a teaching "qualification"). They are simply here to enjoy a lifestyle and an amount of personal freedom which they couldn't enjoy back in their home countries.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with this - it is a perfectly worthy personal lifestyle choice.
On the other hand, if you make such a lifestyle choice, in the pursuit of which you are doing a job for which you are less than fully qualified, it makes you seem ridiculous when you complain about not being treated as a professional. |
This is pure gold. While I've been reluctant to jump on the "all Americans are self-entitled brats" train back home, I've seen it a lot here. Some teachers expect to be treated in a way that isn't commensurate with their qualifications OR abilities. If all you have to offer is a foreign face, darn right you'll be in KFC doing dancing monkey work for your language mill. That is why you were hired.
Best post I've seen on here. |
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Trinley
Joined: 29 Apr 2010
Posts: 144
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| Posted: Sat Sep 03, 2011 9:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Silent Shadow wrote: |
| I wasn't complaining about anything. I was simply claiming that the notion some have of the average Chinese CT being some kind of downtrodden serf, compared to FTs, is not true. |
Okay, I don't think they're downtrodden serfs. I was just trying to make the point that many FTs have an unrealistic sense of entitlement, when in reality they do less work than CTs and receive more pay. |
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Silent Shadow
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
Posts: 380
Location: A stones throw past the back of beyond
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| Posted: Sun Sep 04, 2011 2:00 am Post subject: |
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| Trinley wrote: |
| Silent Shadow wrote: |
| I wasn't complaining about anything. I was simply claiming that the notion some have of the average Chinese CT being some kind of downtrodden serf, compared to FTs, is not true. |
Okay, I don't think they're downtrodden serfs. I was just trying to make the point that many FTs have an unrealistic sense of entitlement, when in reality they do less work than CTs and receive more pay. |
I think it's like comparing apples and oranges. The supply and demand of CTs is completely different to that of FTs, thus affecting their individual worth to schools in China. Both are paid in different ways. CTs get all the benefits that go with tenure (of course FTs should not expect those benefits). The roles we play in student learning are for the most part very different, too.
Although, CTs generally receive lower salaries and have tougher jobs than FTs, their tenure and the advantages and benefits that brings, generally evens things out. In a debate on the salaries of FTs in China, I think a comparison with CTs is basically irrelevant. |
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ecubyrd94
Joined: 25 Aug 2011
Posts: 77
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| Posted: Sun Sep 04, 2011 2:07 am Post subject: |
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I can't imagine making that little $. Sure, it can be done, but I wouldn't want to not have extra spending money for travelling or random stuff. Maybe it's just me. I like to live comfortably and save at the same time.
Last edited by ecubyrd94 on Sun Sep 04, 2011 2:47 am; edited 1 time in total |
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RonHex
Joined: 10 Nov 2009
Posts: 243
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| Posted: Sun Sep 04, 2011 2:22 am Post subject: |
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I can easily live one 2000-3000rmb a month... I live a pretty laid back lifestyle tho. I cook my own meals from scratch (prepared ingredients will kill ur budget.. and most things are taste better homemade ie salsa) I only drink on occasion and rarely at a foreign pub, I walk everywhere, no expensive hobbies, ect. Still there is noway i would take a job that pays so little.
I lke to be able to buy expensive gadgets, take long vacations and save 50000+ a year.. I guess if your ok with living pay check to pay check and returning to your home country without a penny to your name... 4500 is prolly ok.
If you hope to leave China with anything more than experience.. I suggest you look for a job that pays a little better. |
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Lobster
Joined: 20 Jun 2006
Posts: 2040
Location: Somewhere under the Sea
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| Posted: Sun Sep 04, 2011 3:26 am Post subject: |
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I agree with the three main points being made here.
1. The salaries of CTs is irrelevant to FTs
2. It's possible to live comfortably spending about 3k per month for everything except rent
3. An FT should be able to save 3-4k per month
Any job that does not allow 2 or 3 or demands over 25 teaching hours per week to achieve it is, in IMHO, not worth taking. If people are spending way over 3k per month on living expenses and not saving, they need to examine their spending habits.
This leads me to conclude that a livable (not great) salary, in most cases, is about 10k per month without housing and about 7k with housing provided.
This is well within the budget of any training centre or decent school.
RED |
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icedout921
Joined: 13 Sep 2010
Posts: 17
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| Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2011 2:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Maybe its due to my lack of teaching experience. I am getting no offers over 5,000 rmb. I guess it could also be the time of year. Guessing my first job in China will have to be a lower paying one, in order for me to gain some much needed classroom experience. |
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The Great Wall of Whiner
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Posts: 4946
Location: Blabbing
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| Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2011 3:04 pm Post subject: Re: What is a good salary in China? |
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This is a contentious topic, mostly because there are some on this forum who financially gain from keeping foreigner's salaries low.
Recruiters for example can make heaps of money by simply making the following deal with a school: the lower the salary I get a foreigner to work for you, the more you pay me monthly.
So it is in a recruiter's best interest to help the school hire you for cheap. Instead of paying you 8000 RMB a month, the school pays the recruiter 1500 a month and the foreigner 5000 RMB a month and the school saves 1500 a month (or the hiring officer pockets an extra 1500 a month).
Very common, but very unknown because newbie foreigners who speak little to no Chinese have no idea how things work here.
There are more than enough desperate foreigners to fill the low paying jobs up so I am probably wasting my time telling you all this anyways. Pretty sure the usual people who do recruiting on this board will flame me or insult me as well to protect their little gig.
The money in education is extremely lucrative and now my eyes are open wide enough to see that 100 RMB an hour is a joke. There are Chinese teachers making 600+RMB an hour so... when someone says "Ah, Chinese teachers make so much less!" this is utter horseBEEP.
They make money in all sorts of ways you can't even begin to imagine. Tell Chinese teachers you make 4500 a month and they will privately giggle to themselves.
High school and middle school teachers with nice homes (3rd homes!) and nice cars are the first clue.
Bye. |
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The Great Wall of Whiner
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Posts: 4946
Location: Blabbing
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| Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2011 3:06 pm Post subject: |
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| icedout921 wrote: |
| Maybe its due to my lack of teaching experience. I am getting no offers over 5,000 rmb. I guess it could also be the time of year. Guessing my first job in China will have to be a lower paying one, in order for me to gain some much needed classroom experience. |
That's because there are more than enough of you newbies willing to work for such a low salary.
Any reason why you don't accept the 10,000+RMB a month jobs advertised on this website? |
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The Great Wall of Whiner
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Posts: 4946
Location: Blabbing
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| Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2011 3:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Trinley wrote: |
| I was just trying to make the point that many FTs have an unrealistic sense of entitlement, when in reality they do less work than CTs and receive more pay. |
That's so untrue, but I don't blame you for not knowing.
My students' parents tell me all sorts of stories about their kids' public school teachers playing games or reading the paper during class and only pay attention to the kids who attend their personal after-school classes (which make the teachers 30k+ a month).
If I could be paid 3000 RMB a month to sit on my butt and play Plants Vs. Zombies all day then have parents take me out for a free lunch, then rush home after school to teach 20 kids at 50 yuan a pop for 3 hours before dinner.... then yes, I would want to be a Chinese English teacher.
This is why teachers BUY school jobs. Jobs are BOUGHT in China. You do not get the job because you qualify. A co-worker recently offered a headmaster 200,000 RMB to work in a middle school teaching English but was told it was not enough. |
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rogerwilco
Joined: 10 Jun 2010
Posts: 1549
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| Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2011 3:52 pm Post subject: |
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| The Great Wall of Whiner wrote: |
This is why teachers BUY school jobs. Jobs are BOUGHT in China. You do not get the job because you qualify. A co-worker recently offered a headmaster 200,000 RMB to work in a middle school teaching English but was told it was not enough. |
Yes, I have heard many times from my Chinese friends that they must pay about a years salary or more to get their jobs.
Money is one of the reasons that female Chinese teachers in public schools are in high demand by Chinese men. The men like to marry them because of the many benefits the women receive at their jobs. |
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icedout921
Joined: 13 Sep 2010
Posts: 17
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| Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2011 3:56 pm Post subject: |
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| The Great Wall of Whiner wrote: |
| icedout921 wrote: |
| Maybe its due to my lack of teaching experience. I am getting no offers over 5,000 rmb. I guess it could also be the time of year. Guessing my first job in China will have to be a lower paying one, in order for me to gain some much needed classroom experience. |
That's because there are more than enough of you newbies willing to work for such a low salary.
Any reason why you don't accept the 10,000+RMB a month jobs advertised on this website? |
The only schools/companies I have talked to that are paying over 8,000 rmb are the big name ones like English First. Due to the bad reviews I have read on them and the amount of hours/days they require you to work I decided not to work with them. I rather be in a good situation than make great money I just wasn't sure if 4,500 was too low since its more than half whant thse big chains were offering. |
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The Great Wall of Whiner
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Posts: 4946
Location: Blabbing
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| Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2011 4:33 pm Post subject: |
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Ah, so you are looking for a part-time job that you can live off of?
My bad.
In that case, I'd say you'll be all right for 'living', just not for anything extra. |
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7969
Joined: 26 Mar 2003
Posts: 5782
Location: Coastal Guangdong
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| Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2011 5:29 pm Post subject: |
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| The Great Wall of Whiner wrote: |
| icedout921 wrote: |
| Maybe its due to my lack of teaching experience. I am getting no offers over 5,000 rmb. I guess it could also be the time of year. Guessing my first job in China will have to be a lower paying one, in order for me to gain some much needed classroom experience. |
That's because there are more than enough of you newbies willing to work for such a low salary.
Any reason why you don't accept the 10,000+RMB a month jobs advertised on this website? |
Because a lot of them are crap? They don't tell you all the facts up front? No Z visa? 30-40 hours per week? yeah plenty of reasons to not accept the 10,000+RMB a month jobs advertised on this website.
Many of your theories about the job market in China have already been debunked on another one of your threads:
Job Market: Tell us the TRUTH |
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Miajiayou
Joined: 30 Apr 2011
Posts: 283
Location: Nanjing
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| Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2011 7:53 pm Post subject: |
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High school and middle school teachers with nice homes (3rd homes!) and nice cars are the first clue.
Yes. All middle school teachers have three homes and nice cars.
Please. This isn't true anywhere in the world. |
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