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dean_a_jones
Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 1151
Location: Wuhan, China
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 Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2011 12:11 pm Post subject: |
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| 7969 wrote: |
| RonHex wrote: |
| Im gonna take a lot of heat for this.... I dont think they should let people that are HIV positive into Canada. Sorry to say... but they do pose a health risk and could easily cost tax payers a ton of money. |
as tourists I don't have a problem with it, as potential immigrants, you won't get any argument from me. |
I am not sure (as I have not bothered to try to find out) how easy it is to get into a country if you do have HIV (for immigration purposes, not tourism). I can see why you might want to deny people on the grounds of public health and safety, though as my post stated the UNHCR and UNAIDS suggest this is not as rational an argument as it might sound (again don't know their stats and reasoning).
I am not sure I would agree that it should be used to deny someone who otherwise has a legitimate case for seeking asylum, refugee status or to rejoin family members who have immigrated, especially for the above reasons. |
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igorG
Joined: 10 Aug 2010
Posts: 1473
Location: asia
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| Posted: Thu Sep 15, 2011 4:21 am Post subject: |
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People with HIV, that seek residency, are allowed to enter western countries. In China, authorities have claimed they have relaxed the regulation on this topic although it's unclear how much and in what parts of the country.
| 7969 wrote: |
| igorG wrote: |
What you don't understand is that some FTs may have varieties of reasons to have made their choices. They may not necessarily "whine about getting a needle stuck in their arm", but they may "whine" about the reasons behind it and/or about the safety concerns such regulations may pose.
Many Chinese students don't have to undergo such health checks prior to or when joining the western educational institutions abroad. So, why do we continuously need to give blood for the right to work here? |
foreigners who want to work, study, or live in Canada for longer than six months most certainly do have an immigration medical exam.
Medical examination requirements for visitors (tourists, students and temporary foreign workers) to Canada
Designated country/territory list |
Thank you for the link, but i still insist that Chinese students enter western countries' schools without any blood testing. Moreover, they are allowed to work part time during their studies abroad. Perhaps they renew their visas every six months.
| Quote: |
wangdaning:
igorG wrote:
Opiate wrote:
Don't like the reasons behind it...OK. Nobody is forcing you to undergo anything against your will.
Really?
Yes really. Do you have something to add to that? |
I appologize. My "really" isn't really meant to be an invitation to flaming on.
Now, the request for a blood test is against my will, if i apply for a spousal RP on mainland China. And, i own a home in the country too. Further more, the blood test request is against my will, if i apply for a work permit too. My blood has already been taken and so have my taxes. Therefore, you keep it "on file". And, don't discriminate against me and my family. |
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dean_a_jones
Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 1151
Location: Wuhan, China
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| Posted: Thu Sep 15, 2011 5:00 am Post subject: |
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| igorG wrote: |
| People with HIV, that seek residency, are allowed to enter western countries. In China, authorities have claimed they have relaxed the regulation on this topic although it's unclear how much and in what parts of the country. |
From what I remember (I think this was a year or so ago, before the expo) the Chinese may have stopped asking foreigners to state whether they have HIV or not on applications for a tourist (and probably a business) visa. I remember holding a debate over this in class.
| igorG wrote: |
| Thank you for the link, but i still insist that Chinese students enter western countries' schools without any blood testing. Moreover, they are allowed to work part time during their studies abroad. Perhaps they renew their visas every six months. |
While this may be true, if they are doing what you suggest (i.e. taking advantage of a loophole or avoiding being on the correct visa) then that is little different from FTs or students in China who do something similar. Not sure what allowing them to work part-time on a student visa has to do with required medical checks.
| Quote: |
| Now, the request for a blood test is against my will, if i apply for a spousal RP on mainland China. And, i own a home in the country too. Further more, the blood test request is against my will, if i apply for a work permit too. My blood has already been taken and so have my taxes. Therefore, you keep it "on file". And, don't discriminate against me and my family. |
While I can understand your frustration, I am not sure that is really what was meant. I think 'against your will' meant you are living in a foreign country and, if and when you decide you no longer want to deal with the government's requests in order to do so, you can return home.
Technically if they ask you/force you to do something you don't want to do (and this is the same for every law or regulation) then they are making you do something against your will. If you do not do it, and therefore you are asked to leave but also don't want to do this, then whatever action they take (either making you to submit, or kicking you out) is making you do something against your will. Not sure I really buy this as an argument though.
Obviously having a family, owning property etc. here means your situation is different than someone who can just decide to pick up and go rather than submit to this kind of regulation. Nevertheless this kind of 'discrimination' (and I think that is arguably a legitimate term) is part and parcel of choosing to live abroad in any country (including in the west). |
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igorG
Joined: 10 Aug 2010
Posts: 1473
Location: asia
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| Posted: Thu Sep 15, 2011 6:39 am Post subject: |
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The "maybe" seems to be the main idea of the post above.
Foreigners with HIV have been publicly and lawfully welcomed into this country.
Many Chinese students study and work in, for example Australia, where they have been allowed on students visa without any bloody needless. They are permitted to work up to 20 weekly hours there.
It is arrogant to suggest a foreigner married to a local and/or owning a home on mainland China CAN return if s/he disagrees with risky needles.
FTs coming to China have their rights to question the purpose for blood tests and even more so repeated blood tests. FTs renewing their RPs on mainland China have more than their rights to demand explanations why they have to retake such bloody ordeal, when they have already provided one or two to them.
Last edited by igorG on Thu Sep 15, 2011 6:41 am; edited 1 time in total |
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coffeespoonman
Joined: 04 Feb 2005
Posts: 512
Location: At my computer...
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| Posted: Thu Sep 15, 2011 6:40 am Post subject: |
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| OP, I thought you were moving to Turkey in a couple of months? What happened? Turkey doesn't require a blood test... |
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Opiate
Joined: 10 Aug 2011
Posts: 630
Location: Qingdao
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| Posted: Thu Sep 15, 2011 11:56 am Post subject: |
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| igorG wrote: |
Now, the request for a blood test is against my will, if i apply for a spousal RP on mainland China. And, i own a home in the country too. Further more, the blood test request is against my will, if i apply for a work permit too. My blood has already been taken and so have my taxes. Therefore, you keep it "on file". And, don't discriminate against me and my family. |
Nobody is forcing you to do it. You have a choice. Like the rules or not, they are the rules. Should they change? Perhaps. But again...nobody is forcing you to do a single thing. You have the right to refuse the blood test. You are not discriminated against. You are treated the same as any other foreigner trying to obtain the same visa.
Having blood 'on file' has absolutely no meaning. Your HIV or whatever status may have changed in the interim. That.....and it's a requirement. Simple.
As to the spousal RP, yes you need blood taken for the medical exam for the initial 12 month RP. At renewal, you will not need blood taken again or another medical exam. Well, I didn't at any rate. Frankly, this should change in my opinion. Nothing wrong with a blood test every year. I would want something like this enforced in my home country so no reason for me to be against it here.
| igorG wrote: |
It is arrogant to suggest a foreigner married to a local and/or owning a home on mainland China CAN return if s/he disagrees with risky needles.
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Get over yourself. You keep touting your home ownership like it has some relevance to this topic or any other visa related discussion. It does not. Not the least little bit. You seem far more arrogant than anyone else in this thread by a wide margin. You are NOT a citizen of this country. Your wife and children may be but you are not.
Options to risky needles were provided to you but you chose to ignore them. You can watch them open a new needle or bring your own. If that does not satisfy you, nothing will. Granted, I never tried bringing my own but I highly doubt anyone would object. And yes, if you don't like it, hop on a plane. These rules were not put into place yesterday. I have to guess they were here before you entered the country. Same applies to me. If I wake up one day and fear a needle more than I love my wife I will hop on a plane. I knew the rules before I came here. Didn't you? |
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gloomyGumi
Joined: 29 Dec 2010
Posts: 353
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| Posted: Sat Sep 17, 2011 4:52 pm Post subject: |
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I AM THE OP AND HOLY MACKEREL DID THIS THREAD TURN INTO A BUNCH OF BICKERING.
ANYWAY FORGET CHINA, NO WAY AM I GETTING NEEDLES FOR NOBODY NO-HOW, NO WAY, NOPE, NO, NADA, ZILCH, NEE-HAO, SHE-SHE, SAYONARA, THEY CCAN HAVE IT, MIND-CONTROL CHINA, OVER AND OUT.  |
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7969
Joined: 26 Mar 2003
Posts: 5782
Location: Coastal Guangdong
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| Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2011 2:33 am Post subject: |
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| igorG wrote: |
| 7969 wrote: |
| igorG wrote: |
What you don't understand is that some FTs may have varieties of reasons to have made their choices. They may not necessarily "whine about getting a needle stuck in their arm", but they may "whine" about the reasons behind it and/or about the safety concerns such regulations may pose.
Many Chinese students don't have to undergo such health checks prior to or when joining the western educational institutions abroad. So, why do we continuously need to give blood for the right to work here? |
foreigners who want to work, study, or live in Canada for longer than six months most certainly do have an immigration medical exam.
Medical examination requirements for visitors (tourists, students and temporary foreign workers) to Canada
Designated country/territory list |
Thank you for the link, but i still insist that Chinese students enter western countries' schools without any blood testing. |
Oh. . . in that case I defer to your expertise. The Canadian government and health care professionals obviously have this all wrong and have been testing Chinese students needlessly for years. Have you sent this link to the Prime Minister  |
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7969
Joined: 26 Mar 2003
Posts: 5782
Location: Coastal Guangdong
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| Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2011 3:01 am Post subject: |
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| gloomyGumi wrote: |
I AM THE OP AND HOLY MACKEREL DID THIS THREAD TURN INTO A BUNCH OF BICKERING.
ANYWAY FORGET CHINA, NO WAY AM I GETTING NEEDLES FOR NOBODY NO-HOW, NO WAY, NOPE, NO, NADA, ZILCH, NEE-HAO, SHE-SHE, SAYONARA, THEY CCAN HAVE IT, MIND-CONTROL CHINA, OVER AND OUT. |
You may want to seek medical attention yourself. Good luck. |
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jayjjasper
Joined: 27 Aug 2011
Posts: 344
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| Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2011 3:49 am Post subject: |
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| Further more, the blood test request is against my will, if i apply for a work permit too. My blood has already been taken and so have my taxes. Therefore, you keep it "on file". And, don't discriminate against me and my family. |
Don't take it them, as you have that option. Of course if you want to continue to work and live within the parameters of another government's jurisdiction then you will likely have to abide by regulations as they stand, that is unless, your cleaver enough to find a way around it or an authority that can bend regulations in your favor. The ever changing health of individuals would dictate a periodic testing so it would appear that your are requesting a special status given to those foreigners who pay taxes and own homes.
| Quote: |
What you don't understand is that some FTs may have varieties of reasons to have made their choices. They may not necessarily "whine about getting a needle stuck in their arm", but they may "whine" about the reasons behind it and/or about the safety concerns such regulations may pose. |
I think all who has read this thread understand the issue, and the variety of reasons is likely matched by concerns of an administration but what perhaps you should notice is a whine for ever reason is still just a whine and those that deliver it are still just whiners and forever lacking the respect of others. |
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gloomyGumi
Joined: 29 Dec 2010
Posts: 353
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| Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2011 5:07 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| You may want to seek medical attention yourself. Good luck. |
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Brave geek behind a keyboard. How quickly that would change.... |
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RonHex
Joined: 10 Nov 2009
Posts: 243
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| Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2011 8:35 am Post subject: |
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Id suggest staying a little closer to home base.... If a needle is that big of a problem for you... there would be a hundred things a day in China that would drive you crazy.
You need to be pretty stable and resilient to do well here.. |
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The Great Wall of Whiner
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Posts: 4946
Location: Blabbing
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| Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2011 9:59 am Post subject: |
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| Opiate wrote: |
| Nothing wrong with a blood test every year. I would want something like this enforced in my home country so no reason for me to be against it here. |
So just to be clear:
You believe that my Chinese wife should be forced to get a blood test every year if we decide to go back to my home country?
For what aim? If she is negative the first few times, then surely anything she catches it would be from a source in my home country and chances are I would get it, too.
Why not expand it to anyone with contact with her? |
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Lobster
Joined: 20 Jun 2006
Posts: 2040
Location: Somewhere under the Sea
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| Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2011 11:32 am Post subject: |
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I want to work and enjoy the benefits of society, but I really don't want to pay taxes.
I want to drive a car, but I really don't want to have to take a driver's test.
I want a passport, but I really don't want to have to fill out an application.
I want a visa, but I really don't want to submit to a medical.
With privileges come responsibilities. With living in a society come rules to follow. With dealing with bureaucracies come hoops to jump through. Get over it.
What the hell is the problem with having a blood test? It's not like they're cutting your arm off! Is it some kind of phobia of needles? An irrational fear of contamination? Total avoidance of any discomfort? What kind of lives do you lead? Haven't you ever been really sick? Slammed your finger in a car door? Experienced any kind of serious pain? Man, getting a needle stuck in a vein is about as serious as a mosquito bite. You're not six years old any more. It doesn't really hurt at all. The needle is new, you can check it or bring your own if you are paranoid. Sheesh! Try acting like an adult.
RED |
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7969
Joined: 26 Mar 2003
Posts: 5782
Location: Coastal Guangdong
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| Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2011 12:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Lobster wrote: |
| With privileges come responsibilities. With living in a society come rules to follow. With dealing with bureaucracies come hoops to jump through. Get over it. |
Thank you. |
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